are Turned over to NY Prosecutors... Finally !!!
Well I am happy law enforcement will finally have a chance to look into Trumps book work. I mean just imagine how corrupted they are given the outrageous lies he likes to tell.
Usually rural conservative voters revile rich city guys who play fast and loose with the rules. So it will be interesting to see how they handle it if Trump is charged with fraud.
Just imagine what would happen if YOUR tax returns were scrutinized by a vindictive prosecutor? There is an organization that calls all 23 IRS offices for "tax advice" and almost always gets 23 different answers. I decided long ago that rather than go to a tax preparer I would do it myself. They could accuse me of error, but not of cheating. To cheat you have to understand the rules and nobody understands the rules because they are incomprehensibly complicated. Can a vindictive prosecutor interpret the rules and find "fraud," sure. But notice the IRS has been looking for "errors" for years and not found it. Your presumption to the contrary is obvious Trump-hate.
ReplyDeleteJerry,
ReplyDeleteSomeday you really need to decide if you believe in law and order, or if you just want to give it lip service.
The IRS Auditors likely did not have the data regarding what Trump was telling his creditors. Whereas the prosecutor now has the Tax Returns and Creditor Statements... And since it sounds like Trump was keeping 2 sets of books, hopefully he will be convicted of fraud.
Or do you think it is okay for people to report different valuations to different agencies?
Unbelievable! You /know/ that Trump kept two sets of books? But will you at least acknowledge that the IRS, after several years of looking, has found nothing actionable, and the law is the law. If the IRS didn't find it, it doesn't exist. Apparently you have two different standards, one for Trump alone.
ReplyDelete"hopefully convicted"??? How much DO you hate this man?
Have you studied any of the links I provided?
ReplyDeleteThey detail many highly suspect actions taken by Trump and his Companies.
And I have no tolerance for tax cheats or fraudsters. Be they Trump or anyone else.
Apparently you are tolerant of "tax cheats or fraudsters"...
You probably would have given John Gotti a pass...
Just imagine what would happen if YOUR tax returns were scrutinized by a vindictive prosecutor?
ReplyDeleteAlright, I will imagine how MY tax returns were going to be scrutinized by a vindictive prosecutor. If I knew that to be the case, I would take a lot of care in preparing them. I would hire competent and respected accountants to do them. I would give that accountant full access to my financial records. I would keep reciepts for charitable deductions. I would make sure my financial transactions were reported consistently. I would, in all likelihood, be fine.
Part of Trump's troubles is that while he was in midstream, he made the irrational decision to switch horses. For various reasons, he was extremely aggressive, to put it politely, in how he presented his taxes. He assumed that nobody would look at them too closely, and that by distancing himself from them, he could insulate himself from criminal liability. All good assumptions for someone not in politics. But then he started running for president. The practices he employed could no longer be counted once he becane politically prominent, and subject to greater scrutiny, not just by the authorites but by the media. That was predictable, of course. It is a big reason why lots of wealthy people avoid politics particularly in the real estate industry where things can get a little shady.
We know the IRS has been looking at Trump's taxes yearly for decades. While we don't know all that they found, we do know some of the problems Trump has. Basically, Trump has repeatedly tried to take deduct losses of money that never generated income for him, and that is a theoretical no no.
--Hiram
Hiram,
ReplyDeleteAgreed, law abiding folks like us err on the side of safe... Maybe over paying a little.
Where as I think the Trump Family took excessive advantage of the tax code.
And then stupid waved a red flag and yelled at them to look deeper into his transactions...
" I would, in all likelihood, be fine." How naive you are. I have done everything I was supposed to do and yet was audited for a disallowed deduction. The IRS had misinterpreted the provisions, and the deduction was restored. Now suppose I had faced a vindictive prosecutor rather than a "fair" IRS auditor. As I said, the rules are so byzantine-- a good word-- that fraud is almost impossible to prove. Unfortunately the Trump-haters don't HAVE to prove anything, and certainly don't have to look for exculpatory information. If you want to concern yourself with "tax cheats and fraudsters" how about we look into the Biden crime family with equal zeal?
ReplyDeleteOh, and this is rich... "excessive advantage of the tax code." EVERY SINGLE "loophole" was placed there by Congress, then they rail when people use it, as if they had nothing to do with it. Hypocrites at minimum.
Simultaneously providing different valuations to bankers and the IRS at the same time is fraud...
ReplyDeleteA prosecutor is reviewing Hunter Biden's tax records. And Biden approved him staying on to do so.
Unlike Trump who had a bad habit of firing prosecutors, inspector generals, etc to try to hide his improper actions.
It is amazing how blind you are to his corruption.
And his terminating prosecutors.
ReplyDeleteI mean even Barr finally had to call Trump a Fraudster.
The rules are byzantine because it is in the interests of taxpayers to make them so. What Trump does is value the same property in different ways, knowing the tax system is "byzantine" and he is unlikely to get caught. I do know people can get really aggressive, they can make the choice to venture into the byzantine, but they do it with the knowledge they make audits far more likely.
ReplyDeleteI have lots of deductions, and don't have any problem proving any of them. I keep the checks.
--Hiram
Simultaneously providing different valuations to bankers and the IRS at the same time is fraud...
ReplyDeleteFor people who want to be byzantine about it, I am sure there are lots of ways to argue that the valuations aren't really inconsistent. The books that are kept can be quite remote from each other. People in charge of managing this stuff may not even be in communitcation with each other. And the principal can always argue that he knew nothing about it, that he just signed the documents.
--Hiram
What I think of as Hiram's first principle of tax policy is that "complications", "Byzantine" provisions benefit the taxpayer. The most expenive thing you do is the simplest and least time consuming. You report your wages. What you spend time on are the things that save you money.
ReplyDelete--Hiram
Another example of Trump's slimy self serving ways.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, but my guess is that the IRS code allows a number of different ways to set a valuation, so the fact this may differ from how a bank would look at the same property isn't surprising, and certainly not fraud. IF the law is unclear, which it absolutely is on these complicated returns (heck, even one as simple as mine), then the IRS (not some vindictive prosecutor) can claim error but not fraud. The IRS has not, so the Trump-haters should just leave it alone, and leave the returns private as they are supposed to be. They won't.
ReplyDeleteDon't you wish we had a simple Flat or FAIR tax, and could save the billions of dollars spent each year just to comply with the byzantine [def: "5. b. Highly complicated; intricate and involved: e.g. a bill to simplify the byzantine tax structure."] tax code?
ReplyDeleteMy guess is that there are so many ways to value something, that no one can establishe rules and regulation to cover them all. That, combined with the fact, that a lot of different entitites are talking to a lot of other different entities, most of whom don't talk among themselves provides plenty of room for maneuver for real estate moguls seeking to play games with their taxes.
ReplyDeleteWhite collar criminals have enormous advantages under our criminal system. They are both in the position of creating ambiguity through the use of lobbyists, that they can later benefit from when targeted by criminal investigators. They are helped in this by a series of Supreme Court decisions which provide a virtual roadmap for shady practitioners seeking to avoid criminal liability.
Trump showed us how this works. Whenever he was in trouble, the first thing he would claim would be lack of collusion. Not colluding, that is, not working directly with the folks crafting the fraud is the basic defense of the wealthy principal. It is in fact, not without merit. My guess is that Trump worked hard to know as little as possible about the frauds committed on his behalf. He simply structured his affairs to make such frauds inevitable.
--Hiram
Jerry,
ReplyDeleteYou really need to make up your mind...
Should potential crooks be investigated and prosecuted where appropriate?
Or should they be allowed to lie to the IRS and break laws?
You seem fine with the prosecutors looking in to Hunter Biden's questionable transactions, and yet you seem to want to shelter Trump from the same diligence?
You are mixing apples and turnips. The IRS gets to investigate anybody it wants, and in egregious cases turns their data over for prosecution. It all takes place above board. Hunter's dealings were all under the table and highly questionable on their face, once exposed. The IRS can be VERY diligent, and has, while Hunter has pretty much skated so far. Crooks should be prosecuted, but assumed innocent until found guilty. You seem to have rushed to the usual Trump-hating judgment. At most I have been impatient with the investigation of Hunter.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if Trump violated the law...
ReplyDeleteI just assume it is highly likely given his tendency to lie, pay off strippers, misuse his charitable trust, use fraud on students etc...
I am just hoping that I am correct and that he is found guilty by a jury.
You sure found a slimy guy to support...
ReplyDeleteOh I forgot his pardoning of other corrupt crooks / friends.
Your judgment is badly clouded by your obvious hate. Keep it up, and he will keep living rent-free in the minds of Democrats everywhere. Did you see the latest survey, in which the top concern of 95% of Democrats wasn't Iran, or China, abortion or the budget? It was "Trump supporters."
ReplyDeleteJerry,
ReplyDeleteAre you denying that your sleazy hero.
- Lies often
- Paid hush money to strippers
- Misused his charity
- Misled students
- Pardon corrupt partners and politicians?
I mean these have already been proven as my links note.
It will be interesting to see what other skeletons he has buried in his closet.
"proven by my links". LOL. Good thing the IRS and courts of law use a higher standard of proof. So do I.
ReplyDeleteLike the fines and settlement that they were forced to pay?
ReplyDeleteOr Trump admitting that he approved the hush money payment to Stormy?
Or the documented list of who he pardoned and their prior crimes?
They are well documented...
Oh well...
Payments to the IRS are proof of error (or IRS caprice) not fraud. "hush money" is sometimes called "blackmail" and is cheaper than fighting for the truth.
ReplyDeleteAnd if we want to go full "tu quoque" let's compare lists-- Trump v. Obama.
And once again, what is your point, other than you hate Trump? You must be a Democrat, 95% of whom list their top concern as "Trump supporters." In any sane world, can that be considered sane?
"And if we want to go full "tu quoque" let's compare lists-- Trump v. Obama."
ReplyDeleteSure.
Let's start with the number of real scandals (his tan suit doesn't count) during 8 years of Obama/Biden: 0
Number of close relatives in high levels of government: 0
Number of administration officials found guilty of crimes/misdemeanors: 0
Now your turn.
Moose
Jerry,
ReplyDeleteI certainly would not leave that sleaze alone with my daughters...
He has broken his wedding vows often... Definitely not my kind of leader.
But maybe those 3 divorces (ie trade ups) are made up also...
ReplyDeleteWho cares? Does his private life really matter, if he is making America Great Again? Contrary to popular belief, we aren't electing a moral exemplar, but a Chief Executive. Kennedy, Clinton, Clinton and Kamala all had their little side actions. And the press never coverd Obama's MANY scandals.
ReplyDeleteThe hate is strong with you.
Jerry,
ReplyDeleteThe man's policies...
Increased the trade deficit
Greatly increased the National Debt after promising to eliminate it.
How is this "Making America Great"?
"And the press never coverd Obama's MANY scandals."
ReplyDeleteEvidence of which I'm sure will be coming any moment now.
Moose
I'm not sure the first non-peaceful transfer of power in our history makes America great.
ReplyDeleteMoose
So, you object to Biden's forcible theft of the election?
ReplyDeleteDoes his private life really matter,
ReplyDeleteIt's something I am willing to ignore. It wasn't a dealbreaker with Clinton, and it was never my main objection with Trump. I am not unamused, however, by how Republicans who were so concerned about Clinton's marriage, have no problem with Trump's issues during a number of marriages.
--Hiram
Jerry, You are funny...
ReplyDeleteHiram, Yes. Apparently a consensual blowjob is much worse than a man grabbing a woman's pussy against her will and walking away from your wedding vows multiple times...
It amazes me how Jerry rationalizes these things.
I object to the Big Lie being told by Republicans.
ReplyDeleteMy hope is that there are true conservatives willing to run against Republicans in the coming elections. It may mean giving seats to Democrats, but we've seen what happens when Republicans abandon Conservatism in favor of Fascism and Authoritarianism. We've defeated such things elsewhere in the world. Hopefully, we can defeat it at home.
Moose
I am not sure if I agree with your labels, but I will take a relatively honest manipulative McConnell...
ReplyDeleteOver a continually lying delusional Trump any day.
My point is that Republicans can not be considered Conservatives in the traditional/historical sense, so we shouldn't confuse the terms. Conservative politicians who practice their politics in good faith are being canceled by Republican cancel culture. I don't think there's any reason they can't get themselves on the ballots to challenge the Republican candidates if they can find their spines.
ReplyDeleteMoose
Jumping from very very moral respectable candidates like Bush, McCain and Romney to a fraudster like Trump certainly shows the decline.
ReplyDeleteIt is definitely a fight for the soul of the GOP.
John, it amazes me the great lengths to which some people will go to suppress the very real "improper voting" that took place in the last election. Court cases are dismissed not on the evidence, but on technicalities. Real evidence is broadly banned from any social media, and the major media simply call the election for Biden before ANY challenge can be heard. One might imagine that there would be a rush to prove the election was honest, rather than have a cloud over their guy, but we are talking about Democrats-- the end justifies the means.
ReplyDeletepoll says...
"nearly a third of Democrats believe it is likely that the election was stolen from President Trump."
I think you should look at more more recent poll... Even if it done by Rasmussen
ReplyDeleteI think these numbers seem more accurate..
"The poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research shows 33% of Republicans say Biden was legitimately elected as the 46th president of the United States, while 65% say he was not. Overall, roughly two-thirds of Americans say Biden was legitimately elected; nearly all Democrats say so."
And that's the problem with public opinion polls. They are heavily influenced by what the media reports or does not report. Just after the election there was a great suspicion about the results. Then the propaganda began, and STILL people believe what they saw with their own eyes. Imagine that. And here is a crazy thing: why should there be such a great partisan divide on this question? Isn't there some objective truth to be found?
ReplyDeleteNot when 65% of Republicans are listening to a proven red headed lying fraudster.
ReplyDeleteRather than the officials in every state of the union that approved their state's election results.