tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post1450960463361637397..comments2024-03-28T10:08:06.291-05:00Comments on Give2Attain: Put A Boot in Your AssJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-26190030397390428942017-04-20T09:43:59.755-05:002017-04-20T09:43:59.755-05:00Sorry, but the US as a nation lacks the moral auth...Sorry, but the US as a nation lacks the moral authority and resources to be everybody's good Samaritan. What if the guy by the side of the road is just a hopeless drunk? What if the guys who beat him are still standing around, will your involvement help anybody? The problem is one of a proportional response and recognizing the limits of military intervention to solve social problems. Heck, why don't we just call in the Army and Navy to bomb the Chicago city hall? Would that get freedom and opportunity and safety to the local population?jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-90929733669157131932017-04-19T15:59:03.067-05:002017-04-19T15:59:03.067-05:00"Liberals definitely want to help the world&#..."Liberals definitely want to help the world's down trodden by inviting them to come to the USA."<br /><br />Which explains why, under the Obama Administration, we accepted fewer Syrian refugees than Canada? Come off your ideological mountain and join us in the real world.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-21443247852645708022017-04-19T15:57:51.480-05:002017-04-19T15:57:51.480-05:00As I have posted before, average family sizes amon...As I have posted before, average family sizes among welfare families and non-welfare families are the same (and have been decreasing at a faster rate among welfare families for the last 50 years).Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-50958410372088059342017-04-19T14:59:24.063-05:002017-04-19T14:59:24.063-05:00As for my view regarding refugees and Liberals... ...As for my view regarding refugees and Liberals... <br /><br />After listening to Liberals for the last year stomp, accuse people of xenophobia and gnash their teeth in opposition to:<br />- reducing the number of refugees allowed<br />- improving border security<br />- deporting illegal workers<br />- etc<br /><br />I think my man is pretty solid. Liberals definitely want to help the world's down trodden by inviting them to come to the USA.<br />Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-41099130457034991832017-04-19T14:51:23.960-05:002017-04-19T14:51:23.960-05:00I think the correct statement is factually correct...I think the correct statement is <a href="https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/unintended-pregnancy-united-states" rel="nofollow">factually correct</a>. <a href="https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f2e21a87d553cf0415e0df44b67980fd" rel="nofollow">Fact Check 2</a>Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-83063350794226175522017-04-19T13:56:21.179-05:002017-04-19T13:56:21.179-05:00"I mean they are breeding like bunny wabbits&..."I mean they are breeding like bunny wabbits"<br /><br />You may find this amusing, but it's factually incorrect and pretty demeaning. But it's typical for you, so carry on.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-31978705955032399452017-04-19T13:52:42.778-05:002017-04-19T13:52:42.778-05:00"Of course the Liberal view seems to be that ..."Of course the Liberal view seems to be that we should let all refugees come to the USA so they can be cared for here with tax payer dollars."<br /><br />Let that straw man burn, baby, burn!Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-72826503518612852602017-04-19T12:42:00.202-05:002017-04-19T12:42:00.202-05:00Jerry,
When you see a stranger lying by the side o...Jerry,<br />When you see a stranger lying by the side of the road, do walk by repeating the mantra "if I help it will be a mistake... I should only get involved if it will help me personally..."?<br /><br />If not, why do you think the very powerful and wealthy USA, with it's all volunteer military, helping people who are being tormented in other countries is a "mistake"?<br /><br />Especially if the USA is helped if their country is stabilized...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-34215854214647421572017-04-19T12:34:47.924-05:002017-04-19T12:34:47.924-05:00Of course the Liberal view seems to be that we sho...Of course the Liberal view seems to be that we should let all refugees come to the USA so they can be cared for here with tax payer dollars. Instead of helping them to stabilize and improve their own country.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-67529794106519445312017-04-19T12:31:55.609-05:002017-04-19T12:31:55.609-05:00Now as for policy and where people live...
If the...Now as for policy and where people live...<br /><br />If the quality of life of America's poor is an 6 on a 10 point scale... (ie food, safe, personal freedoms, free education, free healthcare, etc)<br /><br />And the quality of life in Afghanistan is a 1 on a 10 point scale... (ie none of the above)<br /><br />Personally I think it more important to help care for the humans in the foreign country. We are doing plenty for our own unfortunate, I mean they are breeding like bunny wabbits, so they can not be too stressed or in suffering... :-)Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-58132290207284091712017-04-19T11:58:39.440-05:002017-04-19T11:58:39.440-05:00The Two Requirements for Intervention:
1. There is...The Two Requirements for Intervention:<br />1. There is a US security or economic issue in the region.<br />2. There are people who can be helped by the intervention.<br /><br />We don't intervene in Africa because so far it has not met rule 1.<br /><br />We intervened and are still helping in both Afghanistan and Iraq because they met both Requirement 1 & 2.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-11714309681300636122017-04-19T09:47:42.079-05:002017-04-19T09:47:42.079-05:00And again, I like Sean's observation of what w...And again, I like Sean's observation of what we can reasonably expect from peoples who have only known monarchies or dictators?jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-12233955669819038752017-04-19T09:47:03.864-05:002017-04-19T09:47:03.864-05:00"Based on your logic people should never try ..."Based on your logic people should never try to help others, because they may not change or live up to our expectations. That sounds very "not Liberal", I am surprised."<br /><br />From a public policy perspective, there's a very real difference between helping your own citizens and the citizens of other countries. Especially when you are asking your own citizens to potentially sacrifice their lives to do so.<br /><br />The reality is that our interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan had very little to do with human rights. If we were really so concerned about human rights, there are several situations in sub-Saharan Africa that could have used thousands of American troops over the last two decades. So maybe we should stop using that fig leaf as a justification for our overseas adventuring. Or we need to push those countries that we help much harder to live up to the promises that we made to our citizens when we put our soldiers' lives on the line.<br /><br />If you believe in the "Prime Directive", then you let the Syrian civil war play out, don't you? The reality is that all Donald Trump accomplished with his missile strike was winning a news cycle. The airfield that he struck was operational the next day. Bombing the Assad government went against his pre-existing policy of backing the Assad government as the most effective partner there to fight ISIS. And let's not also forget that while the pictures of the gassed Syrian children were awful, the pictures we don't see from Syria are far worse. The networks can't show us the pictures of the children who have limbs blown off due to mortar fire and other conventional weapons. "Putting a Boot Up Their Ass" may feel good for a moment, but it isn't a strategy.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-45849175527499107112017-04-19T09:45:12.040-05:002017-04-19T09:45:12.040-05:00Oh, come on. We didn't go into either place t...Oh, come on. We didn't go into either place to improve the lot of women or give them American-style government (or if we did it was a mistake). We went into Afghanistan because a virulent strain of Islam was plotting direct attacks against us from there, and were in control of the government, making them a terrorist state. We went into Iraq the first time because Saddam attacked and attempted to subjugate a neighboring country, and a second time because his STATED and PROVEN possession of WMDs threatened us and the rest of the region, at minimum, as well as his own citizens.<br /><br />I suppose under the BIBI doctrine, we had an obligation to stand up some sort of interim government, and under the imperative of not paying for the same ground twice it should be a government we "like" and can reasonably function. But again, that is all in the interest of the US. If we had a "freely elected" Afghan government that denied terrorists any foothold yet did not let girls go to school, what business is it of ours?jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-21211068568083302892017-04-19T09:28:28.883-05:002017-04-19T09:28:28.883-05:00As for "you broke it"... These countrie...As for "you broke it"... These countries under the rule of Saddam (post Kuwait invasion) and the Taliban were very very broken. All the USA did was try to stop the destruction and give them a chance to rebuild.<br /><br />And long ago the Ottoman empire broke itself by siding with the wrong side during WWI...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-34060298184238597452017-04-19T09:24:26.580-05:002017-04-19T09:24:26.580-05:00Sean,
I am not sure what you are looking for?
Thi...Sean,<br />I am not sure what you are looking for?<br /><br />Things were absolutely terrible for women and other innocents in Afghanistan in 2002.<br /><br />Things were bad for women and other innocents in Iraq in 2002.<br /><br />"The People" in neither country had any freedom to rule themselves or improve things. Both had violent dictators / groups making up the rules.<br /><br />Now they both have been given a chance to improve their situation. We can help to some extent, but what they choose to do with the opportunity is up to them. <br /><br />Kind of like a drug addict who had someone that cared enough to stage an intervention and pay for treatment. Ultimately their future is up to them, all we can do is offer them an opportunity. <br /><br />Based on your logic people should never try to help others, because they may not change or live up to our expectations. That sounds very "not Liberal", I am surprised.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-18830275204397253472017-04-19T08:37:42.423-05:002017-04-19T08:37:42.423-05:00"You broke it, you bought it" seems like..."You broke it, you bought it" seems like a good adage, but it's almost impossible to put Humpty together again, especially if you want him to be something vastly different then he was. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-51286323966390785502017-04-19T08:34:15.103-05:002017-04-19T08:34:15.103-05:00OK, let us take Iraq and Afghanistan, then. Were ...OK, let us take Iraq and Afghanistan, then. Were they "free democratic" countries before we stomped all over them? Are they now, assuming responsibility for all their inhabitants, behaving now as we wish them to, or did we need to MOAB some of them? Would they be anything close to "free democratic" (and I'm not sure that is a good definition of them even today, or of the most desirable state) countries today had we not first toppled the un-free state they were long accustomed to? jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-17765212325210764182017-04-19T08:23:37.886-05:002017-04-19T08:23:37.886-05:00"Put a Boot in Your Ass" is pretty much ..."Put a Boot in Your Ass" is pretty much the opposite of the Prime Directive. It feels like you're just making stuff up as you go along here.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-18174146311032237322017-04-18T22:11:02.412-05:002017-04-18T22:11:02.412-05:00Jerry,
Sean and I were focused mostly on Iraq and ...Jerry,<br />Sean and I were focused mostly on Iraq and Afghanistan (ie free democratic countries), not sure how you jumped to Syria and ISIS? Neither of which has self rule by the people at this time.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-60971250504013687602017-04-18T16:41:54.055-05:002017-04-18T16:41:54.055-05:00No, John, I don't think you can say that. ISI...No, John, I don't think you can say that. ISIS, Syria, and everybody else is "free" right now to do what they will. To some degree, we would certainly prefer that they do what WE think they should be doing, instead. Where that discrepancy gets big enough-- say where they start killing us or our friends-- then we try to "nation build" and force them to live something closer to our ideals. That seems to be easier to say than to do, partly for Sean's reason that a free society is completely foreign to many peoples. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-28432891524857567862017-04-18T16:34:23.598-05:002017-04-18T16:34:23.598-05:00So it does seem you want to force this society to ...So it does seem you want to force this society to live by your standards, even if they do not believe in them?<br /><br />I guess I want them to be free... Remember the Star Trek Prime Directive. This <a href="https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetstemwedel/2015/08/20/the-philosophy-of-star-trek-is-the-prime-directive-ethical/#a99e54621772" rel="nofollow">link is in interesting discussion</a> of it and ethics. Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-70515522252767132292017-04-18T14:56:07.664-05:002017-04-18T14:56:07.664-05:00What I'm saying is that if we're going to ...What I'm saying is that if we're going to sacrifice American soldiers to a cause where we list human rights as one of the reasons we're doing it, we ought to come out of it on the back end with the human rights we were presumably going in to defend and enhance. It's not OK to subjugate women even if there's a democratic veneer to the process.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-72370055567885464752017-04-18T14:17:18.530-05:002017-04-18T14:17:18.530-05:00Also, so are saying we should set up a replacement...Also, so are saying we should set up a replacement ruthless murdering dictator who will impose Sean's will upon the people of Iraq with bombs, guns, torture?<br /><br />"But now you're saying whatever the locals decide on that point is OK, even if it's worse than before -- as has proven to be the case in Iraq."Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-73560523484483906932017-04-18T14:07:14.803-05:002017-04-18T14:07:14.803-05:00PBS Taliban vs Post Taliban
So what do you see as...<a href="http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/episodes/a-woman-among-warlords/womens-rights-in-the-taliban-and-post-taliban-eras/?p=66" rel="nofollow">PBS Taliban vs Post Taliban</a><br /><br />So what do you see as being incoherent?<br /><br />Do you truly believe that modern day Iraq is in any way similar to Afghanistan under Taliban rule?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.com