tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post4426840080433610560..comments2024-03-28T10:08:06.291-05:00Comments on Give2Attain: Who Matters More? Black Folks or Public EmployeesJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-20808817361389923832016-01-23T10:40:58.200-06:002016-01-23T10:40:58.200-06:00Mitigating Factors 1
Mitigating Factors 2<a href="http://sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/listofmitigatingfactors.pdf" rel="nofollow">Mitigating Factors 1</a><br /><a href="http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/factors-considered-in-determining-sentences.html" rel="nofollow">Mitigating Factors 2</a>Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-88335831481720271922016-01-22T16:27:29.983-06:002016-01-22T16:27:29.983-06:00So are you saying that family circumstance and soc...So are you saying that family circumstance and social environment have no bearing on drug use? That doesn't jibe with what our liberal friends have been saying for so long. And our conservative friends believe that family and a social "support system" are critical to getting people OFF drugs. Surely we can't all have it both ways. <br /><br />And I don't know how often the crime is "simple" drug possession. Often that is incidental to robbery, possession for sale, or more heinous crimes more difficult to prove. Sentences should consider these "related" crimes. But not race.jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-79206132219230679272016-01-22T11:03:51.828-06:002016-01-22T11:03:51.828-06:00"I am advocating different sentences dependen..."I am advocating different sentences dependent on the circumstances."<br /><br />Yes, so long as the circumstances are related to the crime. A person's family status has nothing to do with the crime of drug possession.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-76389409338702908622016-01-22T07:57:13.002-06:002016-01-22T07:57:13.002-06:00And I would be the first to tell you that if a jud...And I would be the first to tell you that if a judge is being (consistently, obviously)"unfair" based on race of the defendant, I want that judge off the bench. I've seen a "hanging judge" at work, one who sentenced 30 drug offenders to the maximum in the space of about two hours. Black, white, it didn't seem to matter. He stays, IMHO. It might not be "justice" (I think it was) but it wasn't racial. What's wrong with that? Why is BLM not interested in true justice, and only a mockery of it? jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-7658468225374777972016-01-21T15:35:49.992-06:002016-01-21T15:35:49.992-06:00I am not advocating lesser sentences for anyone.
...I am not advocating lesser sentences for anyone.<br /><br />I am advocating different sentences dependent on the circumstances. That is why Judges are given the flexible sentencing authority they are.<br /><br />The goal is not to just punish the criminal based on some table that was created by a bureaucrat somewhere. That is why we have Judges who evaluate the whole situation before sentencing.<br /><br />If the criminal is not sorry, they don't show the judge respect, the parents do not bother to show up, etc. Of course those people will get a different sentence.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-88008113757953565392016-01-21T15:05:48.421-06:002016-01-21T15:05:48.421-06:00I think we're getting wrapped around the axle ...I think we're getting wrapped around the axle defining "privilege." I would point out that some kids get in trouble because they are "overprivileged," and end up with stiffer sentences, etc. So my suggestion is that we let judges be judges that look at the totality of the crime and criminality, and assign punishment or rehabilitation or restorative justice, or anything else in their toolkit. <br /><br />What we do NOT want is to excuse any and all behavior just because someone is black. The charge of "driving while black" is sometimes cited as an injustice, but "assaulting an officer while black" should demand real justice, not becoming a exemplar and movement leader.jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-66891420474920614262016-01-21T14:27:46.022-06:002016-01-21T14:27:46.022-06:00"But to say that coming from a good responsib..."But to say that coming from a good responsible family is a "privilege""<br /><br />How can it not be when you are advocating lesser sentences in the criminal justice system for those who come from a good family versus those who don't?Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-76240960375332589872016-01-21T13:59:02.780-06:002016-01-21T13:59:02.780-06:00By the way, I am not projecting anything. I am as...By the way, I am not projecting anything. I am assuming the Judge is doing the best they can with the situation in front of them. (ie many factors)<br /><br />You are the one saying that the arrest and sentencing differentials are proof of systemic racism. Remember...<br /><br />"the use of the justice system in a discriminatory manner against one race of folks is a big matter."Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-10322348706452826912016-01-21T13:53:07.995-06:002016-01-21T13:53:07.995-06:00Seems they use the same definition.
"Privile...Seems they use the same definition.<br /><br />"Privilege is a special right, or advantage available only to a particular person or group of people."<br /><br />I think some Liberal Academics seem to be abusing the definition since the majority of us(ie opposite of special) have housing, jobs, parents, education, self confidence, etc.<br /><br />"The term is commonly used in the context of social inequality, particularly in regard to social class, race, age, sexual orientation, gender, and disability. Two common examples would be having access to a higher education and housing. Privilege can also be emotional or psychological, regarding personal self-confidence and comfort, or having a sense of belonging or worth in society. It began as an academic concept, but has since become popular outside of academia."<br /><br />And now you are saying that Parents are ancillary (defn: "providing something additional to a main part or function") to ensuring that a child learns from the mistakes they made and to ensuring they do not repeat the mistake. Maybe that is where we see the world differently.<br /><br />The Parents are to be Primary to children learning correctly and growing into mature responsible adults, and the school / justice system are to be ancillary.<br /><br />By the way, I am up for punishing poor Parents also. If they don't show up for court date, Teacher conferences, etc. Let's find some way to punish them for being irresponsible Parents.<br /><br />But to say that coming from a good responsible family is a "privilege" is silly Liberal speak that tries to label what should be our base expectation as something "special".Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-87632675362243951572016-01-21T12:38:05.624-06:002016-01-21T12:38:05.624-06:00I'm not using the dictionary definition of pri...I'm not using the dictionary definition of privilege. I'm using the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege_(social_inequality)" rel="nofollow">sociological definition</a>. The fact that you're unaware of the term's usage in that context is illuminating in and of itself.<br /><br />"Why do you want to call this a privilege?"<br /><br />I've already explained this multiple times.<br /><br />"Who's fault is it if the child comes from a poor single parent home who is incapable or unwilling to do their job well? The judges?"<br /><br />No, but it is also not the child's. Punishing a child for factors outside of their control is not fair.<br /><br />"Who says the "good upbringing kid" isn't being scared straight?"<br /><br />Why couldn't the other kid be similarly scared straight by the same actions that the good upbringing kid got? This is where your bias comes in. You are projecting your biases on to the scenario. Kid who comes from a two-parent family deserves a break (even though that 2-parent family has apparently already failed him), while the kid who is the product of the unvirutous family structure gets punished to teach somebody a lesson.<br /><br />Why can't the punishment be determined by the actions and not the ancillary factors?Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-55612739767289314112016-01-21T12:28:05.660-06:002016-01-21T12:28:05.660-06:00"privilege : a special right, advantage, or i..."privilege : a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people."<br /><br />Now I know it is relative... However, do you really see being raised in a 2 parent household where the parents are capable and responsible enough to discipline and guide their children as something "special". (ie a privilege)<br /><br />Why do you want to call this a privilege? Why not acknowledge that the inner city kid is living in a deficient situation that forces the Judge to adjust their actions accordingly? Do you really think that inner city judge is going to go as hard on a teen who shows true contrition and has 2 concerned parents with him in court?<br /><br />Who's fault is it if the child comes from a poor single parent home who is incapable or unwilling to do their job well? The judges?<br /><br />Who says the "good upbringing kid" isn't being scared straight? When I was picked up for minor intoxication way back when, I was sure a lot more concerned about my parent's response than the courts.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-73707398754979824012016-01-21T09:32:12.746-06:002016-01-21T09:32:12.746-06:00"Well then what is the "privilege" ..."Well then what is the "privilege" that the one boy has? It certainly is not race..."<br /><br />The judgment is not based on the boy and his actions, it's based on his surroundings. That's privilege.<br /><br />Why does the kid who failed despite the good upbringing not need to be "scared straight"?<br /><br />Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-41401765748379517812016-01-20T15:33:49.225-06:002016-01-20T15:33:49.225-06:00Well then what is the "privilege" that t...Well then what is the "privilege" that the one boy has? It certainly is not race...<br /><br />No one is excusing anyone's behavior. The judge is going with the available option with the best chance of success at helping the individual learn from their mistake. Depending on attitude and given no good support system at home, juvi / prison may be it unfortunately... (ie scare them straight)Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-30525251942653721142016-01-20T13:57:11.731-06:002016-01-20T13:57:11.731-06:00Somehow the word "incorrigible" comes to...Somehow the word "incorrigible" comes to mind. The legal justice system is an imperfect scale and punishment a poor tool for correction. Some progress has been made with drug courts, and Mississippi has long had a successful program for non-violent offenders. Perhaps if we had such alternative tools (or better yet got government to quit creating the conditions giving rise to these "unprivileged" people) we would all be better off. But for the incorrigibles-- unrepentant repeat offenders-- our system isn't so much punishment as it is removing such antisocial people from society. BLM wants to give such people a pass based solely on race. I want people treated according to behavior. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-84810350052892983512016-01-20T13:46:45.884-06:002016-01-20T13:46:45.884-06:00"Personally I think you have your baseline al..."Personally I think you have your baseline all wrong if you seeing having 2 caring hard working responsible parents as a privilege."<br /><br />That's not the part that's the privilege.<br /><br />"I don't think the judge or myself consider applying the legal punishment if a better option is not available is "tossing them in the junk bin"."<br /><br />Sure it is. You're excusing the behavior of the one child not on the basis of their behavior, but because of the status of their parents. You're punishing the other because they don't have that same status -- a punishment that will only make it more difficult for them to overcome the disadvantages they already face.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-48797787249165214902016-01-20T13:13:28.624-06:002016-01-20T13:13:28.624-06:00Somehow it is necessary for society to teach the c...Somehow it is necessary for society to teach the child these <a href="https://docushare.edutech.org/dsweb/Get/Document-11514/great.pdf" rel="nofollow">lessons</a> if the parents are unable and/or unwilling to do so.<br /><br />Unfortunately like a horse with water, it may be very challenging to get them to drink if they are head strong and resistant.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-72525911999638058042016-01-20T13:09:12.812-06:002016-01-20T13:09:12.812-06:00"privilege : a special right, advantage, or i..."privilege : a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people."<br /><br />Personally I think you have your baseline all wrong if you seeing having 2 caring hard working responsible parents as a privilege. Personally I think of that as normal and anything less as deficient.<br /><br />Maybe that is our society's problem, too many people thinking that single parent households are an acceptable norm. Kind of like when Bernie said that a single mom should be able to financially support a household on her income.<br /><br />I don't think the judge or myself consider applying the legal punishment if a better option is not available is "tossing them in the junk bin". Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-15739670104044846632016-01-20T12:11:32.880-06:002016-01-20T12:11:32.880-06:00What you're saying, John, is that we should to...What you're saying, John, is that we should toss these folks -- who through no fault of their own have had a bad upbringing -- and toss them to the junk bin. Cutting a break to the kid that has had a good chance but blew it while punishing more harshly the kid who was behind the 8-ball from the start is how you make the current scenario worse instead of better. You're providing a textbook description of "privilege" here.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-57608087859940113902016-01-20T11:39:08.347-06:002016-01-20T11:39:08.347-06:00This reminds me of the real root cause of these is...This reminds me of the real root cause of these issues.<br /><br />How do we get to a state where the vast majority of families have 2 responsible adults in the household?<br /><br />This is critical for financial, role modeling, teaching, education, supervising and many other reasons.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.familyfacts.org/charts/marriage-and-family" rel="nofollow">Family Facts</a>Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-3323188268785089852016-01-20T11:31:28.185-06:002016-01-20T11:31:28.185-06:00My point exactly. Look at all the possible factor...My point exactly. Look at all the possible factors involved here:<br /><br />- past record of the offender<br />- attitude towards the crime<br />- attitude towards the judge<br />- capability to communicate<br />- attitude towards future behavior<br />- support system available to offender<br /><br />For better or worse a judge has to take all of these into account when deciding what is the correct sentence.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-55922802072319092772016-01-20T10:03:58.370-06:002016-01-20T10:03:58.370-06:00"...Because the poor kid doesn't have acc..."...Because the poor kid doesn't have access to a lawyer or successful parents, you're sending them to jail..." <br /><br />But, Sean, you just said this was a POOR kid going to jail. I thought the disparity was because of RACE??jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-81060625352652014012016-01-20T09:55:04.701-06:002016-01-20T09:55:04.701-06:00"No one is saying that it is."
Seems to..."No one is saying that it is."<br /><br />Seems to me that is EXACTLY what BLM is saying, and it is to the detriment of the black community. See "Ferguson effect."<br /><br />"I don't think the evidence...." <br />You're probably right. Perhaps "usually" or "often" would be more appropriate for something which is so rare in the first place that statistics don't mean much. Whereas other combinations of shooter and victim are much more frequent and statistically significant, and ought to concern us accordingly.jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-68902136978456781672016-01-20T09:50:10.507-06:002016-01-20T09:50:10.507-06:00I've posted links regarding the incidence of d...I've posted links regarding the incidence of drug use and sentencing disparities (studies which control for all sort so factors, by the way) in the past. Go look them up.<br /><br />"Simplest example: 2 young Black men are arrested for smoking pot."<br /><br />Thank you for proving my point. Instead of punishing the child based on what they did, you're punishing the child based on what their parents are doing. Because the poor kid doesn't have access to a lawyer or successful parents, you're sending them to jail which is only going to hurt their future prospects.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-21339099960767311032016-01-20T09:46:28.019-06:002016-01-20T09:46:28.019-06:00"You cannot point to a few cases where a whit..."You cannot point to a few cases where a white cop kills a black man and say that is the norm."<br /><br />No one is saying that it is.<br /><br />"almost always punished if it was not justified"<br /><br />I don't think the evidence is at all clear on this point.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-43816797385645751962016-01-20T09:29:28.712-06:002016-01-20T09:29:28.712-06:00Notice: cop is NOT white. Still, I expect there w...Notice: cop is NOT white. Still, I expect there would be some penalty attached to improperly discharging a weapon, or negligent homicide, or some such. And I would hope the City would compensate the unwed mother of his child a bit. They have the liability, after all. Now, is that "justice" according to BLM standards? Somehow I doubt it. And when a black cop shoots an innocent white kid, like in Utah recently? What do you mean you didn't hear about it?jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.com