tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post4485267222107101256..comments2024-03-28T10:08:06.291-05:00Comments on Give2Attain: The Problem with Sanctuary Cities Johnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-72711795902402655252016-12-01T21:28:35.447-06:002016-12-01T21:28:35.447-06:00I think they are a slight net negative, but nothin...I think they are a slight net negative, but nothing huge with regard to direct governmental expense to them. They generate money and cost money. I liked the wiki link best.<br /><br />But the fact that they take jobs and keep wages down for our most questionable employees is what drives up "their indirect" cost. Imagine all the legal American citizens who could get off welfare, snap, medicaid, if 11 million positions opened up and this forced companies to pay more. Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-25127237300737915292016-12-01T19:01:28.919-06:002016-12-01T19:01:28.919-06:00John, I'm not sure what point you are trying t...John, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. If you are agreeing that illegal immigrants are a net drain on the economy, I have to agree. If you want to side with Politico and count illegal immigrants as somehow a net positive, I must say this: They are NOT SUPPOSED To BE HERE. If they are a net positive, let us force them out and then let them back in on some legal-- e.g. guest worker-- basis. If not, force them out and make them come back on some legal basis only if they offer a net positive (which used to be established policy). jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-83089858281395294242016-12-01T13:20:41.640-06:002016-12-01T13:20:41.640-06:00Wiki is even better<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States" rel="nofollow">Wiki is even better</a>Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-86753193919236998922016-12-01T13:10:19.227-06:002016-12-01T13:10:19.227-06:00Jerry,
Now where are all the tax dollars that ~11 ...Jerry,<br />Now where are all the tax dollars that ~11 Million illegal workers and their families pay into our many various tax systems every month?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/01/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-illegal-immigration-costs-113-bi/" rel="nofollow">Politifact</a><br />Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-19311360320317833502016-12-01T13:01:20.396-06:002016-12-01T13:01:20.396-06:00Jerry's Link<a href="http://www.speroforum.com/a/BITGBOLDQQ48/79444-Government-reveals-massive-cost-per-month-for-illegal-alien-minors#.WEBzT03ruUk" rel="nofollow">Jerry's Link</a>Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-59072807863936140462016-12-01T12:36:16.525-06:002016-12-01T12:36:16.525-06:00What spending? This, for starters:
http://www.spe...What spending? This, for starters:<br />http://www.speroforum.com/a/BITGBOLDQQ48/79444-Government-reveals-massive-cost-per-month-for-illegal-alien-minors?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=PAQNJEUILZ25&utm_content=BITGBOLDQQ48&utm_source=news&utm_term=Government+reveals+massive+cost+per+month+for+illegal+alien+minors#.WEBtfNSevih<br />jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-48736647943492683802016-12-01T12:08:42.243-06:002016-12-01T12:08:42.243-06:00I'm hurt. It sounds like you did not read the...I'm hurt. It sounds like you did not read the linked article.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-47981167482233099522016-12-01T10:16:16.378-06:002016-12-01T10:16:16.378-06:00You could impose various tariffs on Mexico and use...You could impose various tariffs on Mexico and use the money to pay for immigration enforcement. But that assumes that the tariffs will actually generate income. Really, the point of the tariffs is to punish trade and subsidize domestic industry. That being the case, they won't actually raise much money.<br /><br />Generally speaking, Donald favors a protectionist trade policy. Such a policy isn't without it's advantages but it has it's problems as well. Part of the problem is that protectionism has been in disfavor with economists for so long that we don't really have a very complete understanding of how it works, particularly in this globalized, internet wired world. If Donald actually gets to implement these policies, it should prove an interesting experiment.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-56191144654194122122016-12-01T09:18:44.027-06:002016-12-01T09:18:44.027-06:00Okay I'll bite... What money will we save?
I ...Okay I'll bite... What money will we save?<br /><br />I think their leaving will cost us much more in higher wages, automation, etc. That is why it would be good for our poor.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-49811241040175552892016-12-01T08:59:29.944-06:002016-12-01T08:59:29.944-06:00Or, these illegal immigrants could "pay for i...Or, these illegal immigrants could "pay for it" by going back where they came from. A million dollars saved is as good as a million dollars of tax money not spent.jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-53351757526300289212016-12-01T07:48:32.724-06:002016-12-01T07:48:32.724-06:00Hiram,
Apparently the Mexican Government may not p...Hiram,<br />Apparently the Mexican Government may not pay for it, but it sounds like there are several ways to make <a href="http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/23/former-mexican-diplomat-trump-could-actually-make-mexico-pay-for-wall/" rel="nofollow">Mexican citizens, US Illegals and Mexican Businesses pay for it</a>...<br /><br />And yes they do have money... They are working in the USA taking the money that our poor legal citizens could be earning. Well that is if our poor legal citizens really want to work... :-)Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-78889099960494888512016-12-01T06:15:50.397-06:002016-12-01T06:15:50.397-06:00Seems to me those responsible for a problem should...Seems to me those responsible for a problem should pay to remedy it. <br /><br />And that is one of the rationalizations Republicans use. Where is the money going to come from to pay for their immigration? To the Republican mind, it is completely logical to ask the impoverished illegal immigrant to pay for it. And maybe that isn't just the logical, but also the right choice. But do you notice the one big flaw in the otherwise impeccable logic? That impoverished illegal aliens don't have the money to pay for America's immigration policy?<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-19876747128832761412016-11-30T17:22:38.329-06:002016-11-30T17:22:38.329-06:00Seems to me those responsible for a problem should...Seems to me those responsible for a problem should pay to remedy it. And if you think enforcement is expensive, consider the cost of NOT enforcing the laws. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-29420188655694092932016-11-30T16:01:43.823-06:002016-11-30T16:01:43.823-06:00What "pay for"?
Enforcing immigration p...What "pay for"?<br /><br />Enforcing immigration policy is going to be very expensive. Republicans love policy initiatives but they hate paying for them. Trump is never more Republican when he says he wants to build a wall which someone else is going to pay for.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-23898120612179208502016-11-30T10:19:02.042-06:002016-11-30T10:19:02.042-06:00What "pay for"? Stopping them from comi...What "pay for"? Stopping them from coming in is a proper function of government, and must be paid for, sure. But allowing them to come in or to stay has a price, too. And if we simply prosecute people who hire them and there are no jobs, they all go home and it costs us next to nothing. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-40415660516142903912016-11-30T05:53:55.305-06:002016-11-30T05:53:55.305-06:00Your logic seems flawed to me... If there are only...Your logic seems flawed to me... If there are only 11 million working illegals in the US and the population of the US is ~300 million... And if we stop more from coming or over staying... At some point the illegal population will shrink, as will their familial supporters...<br /><br />That's a different logic. And the flaw in Republican logic is generally that they advocate policies they are unwilling to pay for.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-15733664729165185412016-11-28T09:33:19.138-06:002016-11-28T09:33:19.138-06:00Sean, I disagree. If you had said "11 millio...Sean, I disagree. If you had said "11 million or so illegals cannot be SENT home," I would have agreed with you. But a couple states have passed laws banning the employment of illegals and a sizable majority of them apparently up and "self deported." It could be easily done nationwide, with the only question being how gradual to make the change and what facilities might be made for allowing some of them to return, say as "guest workers."<br /><br />Also, some estimates of the "criminal element" among illegal residents are as high as 25%, not surprising considering that roughly 90% of them have committed at least one additional crime in addition to unlawful presence. Any amnesty for these crimes, such as was in the "comprehensive reform," is a terrible idea. It didn't work before and it won't work again.<br /><br />Here it is: Build the wall/fence/whatever. Put in place strict visa tracking to prevent overstays. End sanctuary cities, deport criminal aliens as quickly as they can be found. Establish national E-verify requirements with strict penalties for NEW illegal hires. Use SSA "no-match lists" to notify working illegal aliens they are on "notice of pending deportation" lists. Establish guest worker program and "wink wink amnesty" for those who enter with an employer sponsor (and maybe a few other requirements). jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-22716302274055232952016-11-28T09:01:05.741-06:002016-11-28T09:01:05.741-06:00Hiram,
Your logic seems flawed to me... If there a...Hiram,<br />Your logic seems flawed to me... If there are only 11 million working illegals in the US and the population of the US is ~300 million... And if we stop more from coming or over staying... At some point the illegal population will shrink, as will their familial supporters...<br /><br />The bigger challenges are the Liberals who seem happy to flood the US "Lifeboat" with ever more low knowledge low skill workers, even though their typical voters suffer because of it. And the Conservatives who want the low cost labor pool.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-4153895842502409452016-11-28T08:56:39.453-06:002016-11-28T08:56:39.453-06:00From a practical perspective, the 11 million or so...From a practical perspective, the 11 million or so illegals who are here aren't going home. Yes, you can focus on the criminals and send them home, but that's a relatively small portion. In California, for instance, the percentage of folks in jail who are illegals is smaller than what we believe their incidence in the population as a whole is.<br /><br />So we can either face reality or keep talking nonsense. The bipartisan immigration reform bill that passed the Senate many moons ago now was an apt starting point. <br /><br />Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-28053323357282616822016-11-28T08:54:13.893-06:002016-11-28T08:54:13.893-06:00So, it behooves Trump to remove those illegals fro...So, it behooves Trump to remove those illegals from any possibility of political power NOW, and, to quote Obama, "it's the right thing to do." jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-32832016222443006192016-11-28T06:05:30.724-06:002016-11-28T06:05:30.724-06:00The rest will be taken care of over time
But over...The rest will be taken care of over time<br /><br />But over time, children of illegals will take political power, and will be able to pass laws in their favor. Time is not on the side of those who oppose illegal immigration.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-85547076812815787642016-11-27T19:18:59.152-06:002016-11-27T19:18:59.152-06:00NPR confirms that 45% of illegals are visa oversta...NPR confirms that 45% of illegals are visa overstays. I really don't know what they are doing here, but I assume E-verify would quickly find most of them and their illegal status would be quickly discovered. And I doubt few would defend their continued presence, since they agreed in advance to leave. <br /><br />We also happen to know, through SSA, where about 90% of the remaining illegals are. Trump's proposal for "voluntary removal" would work, if those folks were simply notified that they had, say, a year to go back where they came from and (maybe) re-enter legally. The other 10% may be criminals (as evidenced by their not registering their employment with SSA) and already are slated for removal under Trump's (and supposedly Obama's) policy of starting with criminal illegal aliens. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-77766414642992581872016-11-27T11:57:13.238-06:002016-11-27T11:57:13.238-06:00Hiram,
Well if we can actually shut down the illeg...Hiram,<br />Well if we can actually shut down the illegal border crossings and visa overstays. (actually enforce the laws) <br /><br />The rest will be taken care of over time. Everyone gets old and passes away, even illegal aliens. And if Trump follows through on aggressively deporting law breaking illegals and enforcing E Verify during the next 4 years, we will have a good start at reducing the number of illegals in the country.<br /><br />Then time will take care of the rest...<br /><br />Jerry,<br />I always find it amusing that Liberals automatically think that Hispanics support illegal immigration. It is like saying that the people who made it to the Titanic's life boats would be excited to invite all those still in the water to join them... Even if it made their situation more precarious.<br /><br />The reality of course is that many legal immigrants waited in line, and are very unhappy that others would be allowed to cut in line...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-7532005548084590302016-11-27T11:15:47.267-06:002016-11-27T11:15:47.267-06:00One would assume you are correct, but exit polls s...One would assume you are correct, but exit polls suggest that over half of Hispanics support Trump's immigration policy in some form. Those who came legally don't want to compete with those who didn't, and why should they?<br /><br />And I don't care to split hairs over "illegal" versus "criminal." The penalty for any illegal presence should be deportation, with return being a felony. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-59282907884017361672016-11-27T06:06:10.823-06:002016-11-27T06:06:10.823-06:00Who needs a legal immigration process when everyon...Who needs a legal immigration process when everyone who can get here can stay without legal penalty?<br /><br />The reality is that the political position of illegal aliens will grow stronger as time passes as they have children and grandchildren who are born here, who are therefore full citizens, who will not view kindly politicians who want to send mom and dad, grandma and grandpa back to the old country. The inevitable political reality is that the deal anti immigration forces can get will only get worse as their bargaining position worsens. I find it amazing that people don't see that.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com