tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post5075256537396285188..comments2024-03-28T10:08:06.291-05:00Comments on Give2Attain: Enablers of Dependency- Reap What You SowJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-27510178324891288572016-05-25T08:27:12.217-05:002016-05-25T08:27:12.217-05:00Is that why she is getting welfare? Because she do...Is that why she is getting welfare? Because she doesn't live with a man? <br /><br />Absolutely. FDR started welfare for "widows and orphans." Later it became "Aid to Families with Dependent Children" (= no man in the house). Until LBJ, there were "surprise visits" to AFDC homes to INSURE there was no man in the house, and now we pay extra for additional children born to welfare recipients even though, we are asked to believe, there is no man in the house. <br /><br />It's a good reason to collect welfare, that one struggles as a single parent. It is no reason whatsoever to allow welfare to encourage that situation. <br /><br />I know a number of women who unintentionally became single parents with nothing, collected welfare (or more likely charity) for a short time, and then modestly succeeded. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-90009398164215099822016-05-24T08:59:03.281-05:002016-05-24T08:59:03.281-05:00If a woman is on welfare because she has no "...If a woman is on welfare because she has no "man in the house," should government pay for an additional child?<br /><br />Is that why she is getting welfare? Because she doesn't live with a man? Or because she has a child in need of support?<br /><br />I have to say, I know a number of women who don't live with men, and without knowing all the details of their household finances, I would be surprised if most of them received welfare. Indeed some of them are doing quite well.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-29436295392046537952016-05-18T13:55:40.519-05:002016-05-18T13:55:40.519-05:00To get back to the point of this discussion from w...To get back to the point of this discussion from where we are...<br /><br />If a woman is on welfare because she has no "man in the house," should government pay for an additional child? Should the government require an abortion? What is the message if those steps are NOT taken? jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-13028982132868623022016-05-18T13:38:34.607-05:002016-05-18T13:38:34.607-05:00I would say it would depend, legally at least, on ...I would say it would depend, legally at least, on the definition of "distraught," none of which would normally apply to a choice abortion. The typical pro-choice extremist position is usually described as "any abortion, for any woman, for any reason, at any time." The law, and common sense, precludes that philosophy for murder of postpartum humans.jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-21224427604181687232016-05-18T10:15:21.486-05:002016-05-18T10:15:21.486-05:00if a woman chooses to murder her husband, that'... if a woman chooses to murder her husband, that's OK? <br /><br />The argument seems to be it's ok if she is distraught. What I gather from the pro life position is that women are not competent to make some decisions. So I guess the next question is, which decisions are they competent to make?<br /><br />" the extreme pro-life and extreme pro-choice people are both absolutists that insist on their view throughout a pregnancy, rather than recognize the point of viability as some (admittedly compromise) break point."<br /><br />Pro life people work very hard to avoid the implications of their position. The argument here, for example, is that such issues are "hypothetical" and therefore need not be answered. But the fact is, politicians answer hypothetical questions all the time.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-36278868745080642682016-05-18T09:57:38.582-05:002016-05-18T09:57:38.582-05:00Hiram, that question is not about policy, unless t...Hiram, that question is not about policy, unless the policy question was "should the law be followed?" He answered correctly for the hypothetical asked. The way it was asked and most certainly the reporting of it afterward, were deliberately biased and unfairly distorted. It certainly did not reflect on the policy preferences of Mr. Trump or, more broadly, on the pro-life majority of voters.jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-50149669683581557092016-05-18T09:53:26.702-05:002016-05-18T09:53:26.702-05:00" But I fail to understand why conservatives ..." But I fail to understand why conservatives insist on infantilizing women and saying they aren't competent to make their own choices?"-- Sean<br /><br />So, if a woman chooses to murder her husband, that's OK? Why should it be different if she murders her child? The only way to be pro-choice beyond the Roe v. Wade threshold is if one denies the scientific and medical (and ethical and legal) reality that a second person is involved. <br /><br />I think the extreme pro-life and extreme pro-choice people are both absolutists that insist on their view throughout a pregnancy, rather than recognize the point of viability as some (admittedly compromise) break point. Of course, if I must choose sides, I side with the pro-life people simply because simple science supports their claim that the fertilized ovum IS a human being, just as it denies the pro-choice claim that a 38-month-old fetus is not. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-86056096490454112872016-05-18T09:53:13.170-05:002016-05-18T09:53:13.170-05:00His reply was that the law should be obeyed and en... His reply was that the law should be obeyed and enforced.<br /><br />He said quite clearly that the woman should be punished.<br /><br />" The usual campaigning rule is that you don't answer hypotheticals, but Trump doesn't follow the usual campaigning rule"<br /><br />Are questions about policy hypothetical? Trump gave a blunt answer to a question every other Republican candidate was willing to answer too. There wasn't anything unfair about it. There is no reason to think that either the question or the answer fell into the category of issues, presidential candidates are allowed to duck.<br /><br />--HirsmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-21771150409725935752016-05-18T09:42:07.498-05:002016-05-18T09:42:07.498-05:00"It came when Republican presidential nominee..."It came when Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump in a rare moment of clarity, told Chris Matthews that women would have to be punished for having abortions."<br /><br />I really wonder how these ridiculous stories get started and circulated, unless maybe the media has a bias? Trump was asked very directly, "If abortion were against the law, what should happen?" His reply was that the law should be obeyed and enforced. The usual campaigning rule is that you don't answer hypotheticals, but Trump doesn't follow the usual campaigning rules. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-37601594670551623722016-05-18T09:33:56.062-05:002016-05-18T09:33:56.062-05:00"'I don't think women should be allow..."'I don't think women should be allowed to kill their children.' They're not. They're aborting a pregnancy."-- Joel<br /><br />That's neither what the Supreme Court ruled nor what the scientific and medical data prove. At roughly 20 weeks, the fetus becomes able to live outside the womb. Premature deliveries at 26 weeks or so routinely live. Therefore, at the "point of viability," the fetus becomes a child and shouldn't be wantonly killed. By anybody.jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-26471120388479286482016-05-18T08:57:33.339-05:002016-05-18T08:57:33.339-05:00Should a woman be denied the opportunity to obtain...Should a woman be denied the opportunity to obtain a safe abortion performed by a medical doctors simply because she is distraught? <br /><br />--Hiram<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-50807491028014961582016-05-18T08:47:56.249-05:002016-05-18T08:47:56.249-05:00If you want to advocate for punishing distraught s...If you want to advocate for punishing distraught stressed Mom who kills their unborn fetus.<br /><br />That is, of course, what pro choice people are against, as oppose to advocate. But the reality is, being distraught just isn't a defense to a criminal charge anywhere else. And of course, many women who have abortions aren't distraught. Lacking that defense, does that mean those women should be convicted of a crime?<br /><br />==HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-22635773132127683402016-05-18T08:45:51.666-05:002016-05-18T08:45:51.666-05:00"If you want to advocate for punishing distra..."If you want to advocate for punishing distraught stressed Mom who kills their unborn fetus. Please feel free to."<br /><br />Well, I'm pro-choice, so no. But I fail to understand why conservatives insist on infantilizing women and saying they aren't competent to make their own choices?Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-54651842722536059642016-05-18T08:30:48.313-05:002016-05-18T08:30:48.313-05:00Hiram,
If you want to advocate for punishing dist...Hiram, <br />If you want to advocate for punishing distraught stressed Mom who kills their unborn fetus. Please feel free to.<br /><br />I think most of us would be concerned with the punishing the one who actually illegally stops that beating heart.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-12073692285126505322016-05-18T05:44:57.533-05:002016-05-18T05:44:57.533-05:00
Often we give victims the benefit of the doubt.
...<br />Often we give victims the benefit of the doubt.<br /><br />Is that why we let Michael Corleone off the hook because it was his associates who killed the Barzini Family?<br /><br />children criminals coerced by their parents<br /><br />What other crimes can women commit because like children, they are incompetent? How widely are you expanding this get out of jail free card?<br /><br />person committing crime under duress <br /><br />What other crimes are women allowed to commit because they are under a lot of pressure? <br /><br />Do men get these same exemptions from the criminal law?<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-52200768754441064172016-05-17T20:45:32.601-05:002016-05-17T20:45:32.601-05:00Some other examples...
- sex workers in slave trad...Some other examples...<br />- sex workers in slave trade<br />- children criminals coerced by their parents<br />- person deemed temporarily insane<br />- person committing crime under duress <br />- etc<br /><br />Often we give victims the benefit of the doubt. And in this case many people feel the Mother is the victim if someone convinces her to kill her unborn child... I mean <b>what sane rational loving Mother would kill her child...</b><br /><br />I mean what would you think of a Mother who smothered her 26 week old preemie because having it live would be inconvenient? Does that seem rational?<br /><br />Or maybe if she just <a href="http://clinicquotes.com/judge-says-partial-birth-abortion-is-no-worse-than-other-kind/" rel="nofollow">started pulling her daughter apart</a> like a rotisserie chicken...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-73868260443939480182016-05-17T15:38:16.151-05:002016-05-17T15:38:16.151-05:00It came when Republican presidential nominee Donal...It came when Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump in a rare moment of clarity, told Chris Matthews that women would have to be punished for having abortions. The outcry in response from pro life groups was immediate. It won't be a crime for a woman to have an abortion, we were told, rather it would be the medical professionals who performed the abortion who would be prosecuted. For the fans of logic out there, what that means is that it's not choosing to have an abortion that should be criminal, rather the crime is committed by those who safely perform the abortion the woman has chosen to have. Admittedly the criminal law implications of this are unusual, I know of know other crime where the aidors and abettors are charged but the principal is not, but then, that isn't my argument.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-88384182955964961672016-05-17T15:18:12.896-05:002016-05-17T15:18:12.896-05:00I must be...I must be...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-17197390214114482572016-05-17T14:50:58.873-05:002016-05-17T14:50:58.873-05:00I think you're missing my point (and Hiram'...I think you're missing my point (and Hiram's).Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-78934453424424615432016-05-17T14:43:14.252-05:002016-05-17T14:43:14.252-05:00Sean, You are not really playing in Hiram's w...Sean, You are not really playing in Hiram's world today...<br /><br />I think all of us disagree with this statement.<br />"nobody has a problem with the abortion itself"<br /><br />Please remember that Conservatives will also go after practitioners who perform illegal abortions. The goal is to discontinue the stilling of human hearts / brains that are attached to healthy fetuses. Sometime we get into the silliest side tracks.<br /><br />Remember that almost everyone is willing to treat the woman as a victim... Yet if she delivers the baby and throws it in a dumpster she could go to jail.<br /><br />Though viability is as good of a middle ground as I can think of... It is still very poor. Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-49989819000614543192016-05-17T14:06:36.580-05:002016-05-17T14:06:36.580-05:00Really? Under conservative legislative proposals ...Really? Under conservative legislative proposals who gets charged with a crime if an illegal abortion is done -- the woman or the doctor? The proposals that require doctors to have admitting privilges at hospitals within a certain distance or imposing facility requirements or requiring increased inspections -- those are all directed at doctors to make it financially impossible for them to remain in business while providing abortions.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-32836751039161697842016-05-17T13:44:29.308-05:002016-05-17T13:44:29.308-05:00I must have missed that discussion...I must have missed that discussion...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-5054347371555414642016-05-17T13:37:00.136-05:002016-05-17T13:37:00.136-05:00Whether they smother the 26 week old or have a Doc...Whether they smother the 26 week old or have a Doctor slice up the 28 week old fetus. They are ending a human life.<br /><br />But, we have had it explained to us, nobody has a problem with the abortion itself, the objection is to the medical professionals whose job it is to perform the abortion safely. They are the targets of the pro life advocates.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-86737339615149758032016-05-17T13:29:44.617-05:002016-05-17T13:29:44.617-05:00Joel,
Whether they smother the 26 week old or have...Joel,<br />Whether they smother the 26 week old or have a Doctor slice up the 28 week old fetus. They are ending a human life.<br /><br />Or do you want to try to explain the fine point to the dead baby who's heart is no longer beating?<br /><br />"Life Stops whether you stop the heart of a 26 week old preemie or a 28 week old fetus... One is murder and the other is supported by Pro-Choice folks, even though the fetus is 2 weeks older."<br />Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-48261043165481461372016-05-17T12:00:09.877-05:002016-05-17T12:00:09.877-05:00"I don't think women should be allowed to..."I don't think women should be allowed to kill their children."<br /><br />They're not. They're aborting a pregnancy.<br /><br />JoelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com