tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post6010704608320530115..comments2024-03-28T10:08:06.291-05:00Comments on Give2Attain: Electoral Votes: What is Fair?Johnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-61462710297488452442017-06-19T17:46:11.647-05:002017-06-19T17:46:11.647-05:00Democrats just got some very good news from the Su...<a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/06/19/democrats-just-got-some-very-good-news-from-the-supreme-court-on-gerrymandering/?tid=pm_pop&utm_term=.07fe49a2458b" rel="nofollow"><br />Democrats just got some very good news from the Supreme Court on gerrymandering</a>Laurienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-47971636010437663162017-06-19T16:58:46.496-05:002017-06-19T16:58:46.496-05:00Does this mean that the Democrats are just as craz...Does this mean that the Democrats are just as crazy as the Republicans and they all need to be stopped?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-59750964319459058522017-06-19T15:46:48.660-05:002017-06-19T15:46:48.660-05:00"How many do you think Manson would have kill..."How many do you think Manson would have killed if he had not been put in jail?"<br /><br />And how many more millions would Hitler have killed if we'd have been unable to stop him?<br /><br />MooseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-63404962202357970422017-06-19T13:21:25.686-05:002017-06-19T13:21:25.686-05:00How many do you think Manson would have killed if ...How many do you think Manson would have killed if he had not been put in jail?<br /><br />I like this much more pragmatic view. <a href="http://marylandreporter.com/2015/10/04/rascovar-gerrymandering-is-here-to-stay/" rel="nofollow">Why gerrymandering is here to stay</a>Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-5701991641595432092017-06-19T12:05:45.110-05:002017-06-19T12:05:45.110-05:00And Manson and Hitler both had people killed.
Moo...And Manson and Hitler both had people killed.<br /><br />MooseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-81434297474201354502017-06-19T11:57:23.096-05:002017-06-19T11:57:23.096-05:00Please note that I did not say they were identical...Please note that I did not say they were identical. Just that they both do it and it is apparently legal to do it in most cases.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-2470689593230372242017-06-19T10:36:00.424-05:002017-06-19T10:36:00.424-05:00"That will be interesting since it seems both..."That will be interesting since it seems both parties like to do it..."<br /><br />Sure they do.<br /><br />MooseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-64728317886144210262017-06-19T10:31:05.771-05:002017-06-19T10:31:05.771-05:00"That will be interesting since it seems both..."That will be interesting since it seems both parties like to do it..."<br /><br />Not so much. Or, to be more accurate, one side does it a lot more than the other.<br /><br /><a href="http://election.princeton.edu/2012/12/30/gerrymanders-part-1-busting-the-both-sides-do-it-myth/" rel="nofollow">Princeton: Gerrymanders: Busting the Both Sides Do It Myth</a>Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-58488718991429464812017-06-19T09:36:14.982-05:002017-06-19T09:36:14.982-05:00That will be interesting since it seems both parti...That will be interesting since it seems both parties like to do it...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-88319239321818660552017-06-19T08:28:10.094-05:002017-06-19T08:28:10.094-05:00If they want to get back in power they need to cha...If they want to get back in power they need to change something...<br /><br />We can start by killing gerrymandering.<br /><br />MooseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-59307971810458527222017-06-18T06:32:49.140-05:002017-06-18T06:32:49.140-05:00If they want to get back in power they need to cha... If they want to get back in power they need to change something...<br /><br />The fact that they can't, the fact that they are stuck with a president who they didn't want for years is a huge contributor to the toxicity of our political culture.<br /><br />And the argument that it's all a game, doesn't help much. We really shouldn't try to explain that Americans who put their lives on the line throughout the world do it because the outcome of a game. It's that kind of lack of seriousness that resulted in the election of an unfit minority president.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-57195524460512836412017-06-17T07:46:13.849-05:002017-06-17T07:46:13.849-05:00Well... If they want to get back in power they nee...Well... If they want to get back in power they need to change something...<br /><br />The rules of the game were set long ago and are unlikely to change anytime soon.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-56689961260573079242017-06-17T06:02:36.343-05:002017-06-17T06:02:36.343-05:00Why do you think the Democratic party should be en...Why do you think the Democratic party should be encouraged to ignore the beliefs and wants of these people?<br /><br />Because they have the votes.<br /><br />What is wrong with the Democratic party that they are unable to appeal to these people?<br /><br />I should point out we do appeal lot to what I generally don't describe as "these people". A party who most people vote for, and whose leader isn't disapproved of by 60 percent of the people doesn't really have to explain why people aren't on it's side.<br /><br />--hiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-57902357744774817622017-06-17T00:18:11.292-05:002017-06-17T00:18:11.292-05:00Laurie,
Are you ignoring my excellent link?
The c...Laurie,<br />Are you ignoring my <a href="http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/print-edition/20141018_USC956.png" rel="nofollow">excellent link</a>?<br /><br />The current system results in a mix of governments over time. Your plan would ensure that the people who are not on the coasts or in the big cities would be ignored.<br /><br />Why do you think the Democratic party should be encouraged to ignore the beliefs and wants of these people?<br /><br />What is wrong with the Democratic party that they are unable to appeal to these people?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-49341044038601090572017-06-16T22:33:35.578-05:002017-06-16T22:33:35.578-05:00simple would be to elect the president with a simp...simple would be to elect the president with a simple majority. The rules for the senate give people from small or rural states much more voting power than the people of california. The living patterns of liberals being packed into cities gives conservatives more voting power in the house. Liberals deserve to have fair voting power and representation in some branch of govt. The fact that you defend a system that leaves the majority powerless in Washington seems idiotic to me.Laurienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-45933164072201270242017-06-16T19:09:08.778-05:002017-06-16T19:09:08.778-05:00Well you keep looking for the complex solution.
I...Well you keep looking for the complex solution.<br /><br />I like to keep things simple.<br /><br />The electoral system applies to a weighting to balance majority rule and regional power sharing.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-42050815977455692852017-06-16T11:27:51.163-05:002017-06-16T11:27:51.163-05:00Per the map above and how the vast majority of Sta...Per the map above and how the vast majority of States have chosen to allocate their Electors... (ie winner gets all) It seems pretty simple and straight forward unless a "Faithless Elector" strays from the norm.<br /><br />Is it? Donald Trump has argued that the electoral college favors Democrats. Does it? How would we go about answering that question. What would the protocols of our analysis be? I have a few of my own theories about how we would go about that, but those theories wouldn't be universally accepted. Others would have perfectly valid theories I wouldn't accept. What that tells me is that the problem Mr. Trump raises is an enormously complicated one, certainly beyond my own understanding. Things just aren't as simple as efforts to simplify would make them.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-60410914942606351732017-06-16T10:42:48.284-05:002017-06-16T10:42:48.284-05:00Per the map above and how the vast majority of Sta...Per the map above and how the vast majority of States have chosen to allocate their Electors... (ie winner gets all) It seems pretty simple and straight forward unless a "Faithless Elector" strays from the norm.<br /><br />What confuses you about this very proven robust institution?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-89548484899880344122017-06-16T10:32:55.751-05:002017-06-16T10:32:55.751-05:00It is a question of whose ox is gored. But I would...It is a question of whose ox is gored. But I would add that when people speak about the toxicity of our political atmosphere, a substantial contributing factor is the the person we elected to presidency was not the individual who won the popular vote. Added to that is the fact that his approval polling numbers which were awful and the best of times are in decline. Mr. Trump's only source of legitimacy is the electoral college, a two hundred plus year old institution that no on understands or knows anything about. How many electors can you name?<br /><br />It's not that there aren't ways to address the legitimacy issue. It's just that Mr. Trump hasn't tried any of them, the result being a presidency that is melting away right before our eyes.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-44005549373269998042017-06-16T10:23:12.587-05:002017-06-16T10:23:12.587-05:00"And yet as I say it is the Liberals who want..."And yet as I say it is the Liberals who want change the rules so we become a mob rules country. (ie national majority rules all)"<br /><br />Interestingly enough, in the days before the 2000 election, many pundits considered a scenario where George W. Bush won the popular vote while Al Gore won the Electoral College. The Bush campaign itself considered such a possibility, and were planning an effort to stoke public protest to try and delegitimize a Gore win under such circumstances. Even pundits like Chris Matthews preemptively criticized Gore for winning under such a scenario.<br /><br />Funny how the worm turns when the results end up differently.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-85754637621766343602017-06-16T09:55:01.508-05:002017-06-16T09:55:01.508-05:00So with the above in mind... What do you think th...So with the above in mind... What do you think the Liberals have been doing or not doing to <a href="http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/" rel="nofollow">alienate so many active voters in so many States</a>?<br /><br />I have another thought... The Dems focus on trying to take from the successful to give to the unsuccessful. Unfortunately for them the unsuccessful folks are often unsuccessful for a reason... Which likely leads to their not being personally organized, disciplined or motivated enough to get in to vote.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-12575903768055539732017-06-15T23:05:59.673-05:002017-06-15T23:05:59.673-05:00I think that is a question of perception.
The Pre...I think that is a question of perception.<br /><br />The <a href="http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/print-edition/20141018_USC956.png" rel="nofollow">Presidency pendulum</a> has been swinging back and forth pretty consistently for the past 50+ years. So has <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_States_Congresses" rel="nofollow">congress</a>. Seems like the balance is pretty good.<br /><br />And yet as I say it is the Liberals who want change the rules so we become a mob rules country. (ie national majority rules all) I think the electoral college 2 senators / state is much better.<br /><br />As I often say... If the Liberals would stop catering nearly <a href="http://give2attain.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-g2a-nolan-diagram-rev-00.html" rel="nofollow">exclusively to the far Left Urban Liberals</a> they would like get more votes from people in other parts of the country.<br />Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-21741371770935883812017-06-15T21:00:14.075-05:002017-06-15T21:00:14.075-05:00you do realize that we are currently living the op...you do realize that we are currently living the opposite of this, right?<br /><br />"And to ensure the dominant majority of City/Coastal Americans do not run rough shod over everyone else."<br /><br />Clinton got 3 million more votes yet Trump is president. More people voted to be represented by a democratic senate candidate yet the GOP is in the majority of the senate. To regain the house majority dems need to win 55% of of the vote in 2018.<br /><br />Seems to me conservative voters are running rough shod over the rights of liberals.<br />Laurienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-83138774977432825572017-06-15T16:22:42.553-05:002017-06-15T16:22:42.553-05:00That's funny, I thought they voted for politic...That's funny, I thought they voted for politicians who they think represent beliefs similar to their own. Kind of like what we all do.<br /><br />State's need power and rights so they can represent the will of the people who live there. I mean remember what USA stands for... United <b>States</b> of America<br /><br />Interesting thought... Do folks who want to transfer most of the money and power from the States to the Fed want to rename our country??? Maybe something in a Native American language... Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-67321913537260035102017-06-15T15:06:39.895-05:002017-06-15T15:06:39.895-05:00The belief that the people in rural America and sm...The belief that the people in rural America and smaller states do not know what is good for them and that they should comply with their superiors.<br /><br />What happens with people from smaller states is that they move to larger states if that decision is good for them.<br /><br />The "State" does nothing of it's own accord.<br /><br />So what does it need rights for?<br /><br />--Hiram<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com