tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post8522640422058642900..comments2024-03-28T10:08:06.291-05:00Comments on Give2Attain: Hearts Stopped Each YearJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-70064000041019099042015-07-08T13:07:07.350-05:002015-07-08T13:07:07.350-05:00Jerry,
I think other countries are doing their bes...Jerry,<br />I think other countries are doing their best to over populate the world.<br /><br />We can just let the smartest and most capable immigrate to the USA...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-43543420308197805432015-07-08T11:17:07.593-05:002015-07-08T11:17:07.593-05:00Thanks, Sean, but for once I was more or less awar...Thanks, Sean, but for once I was more or less aware of that, and it doesn't really matter. A woman should know within 20 weeks of conception whether she was raped or not.jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-73693178496388733412015-07-08T11:14:12.413-05:002015-07-08T11:14:12.413-05:00That's a matter that will have to be litigated...That's a matter that will have to be litigated in order to reach a final conclusion. Federal courts have struck down some states' efforts to move it up to 20 or 24 weeks.<br /><br />(For Jerry's edification, it is worth pointing out that at least nine states that have the 20-week ban do not include rape as an exception.)Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-10294264851564726442015-07-08T11:13:44.481-05:002015-07-08T11:13:44.481-05:00" It is the kids I am worried about." --..." It is the kids I am worried about." -- John<br /><br />It's the kids I am worried about, too. Especially when they start "fornicating like rabbits" rather than establishing lasting pair-bonds, feelings of self-worth and trust and such that lead to establishing successful families. I'm worried about all the children that are NOT born because the "big kids" are having too much fun to take on the responsibility of continuing the society. What's the old saying, "Why buy the cow..."? That's not to say those couples who responsibly choose contraception for a time shouldn't be allowed to, nor that singles shouldn't choose abstinence, for that matter, but it should be a responsible choice, not some government encouragement to casual sex. Talk about "bread and circuses."jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-2758259314175444102015-07-08T11:02:49.868-05:002015-07-08T11:02:49.868-05:00This is a pretty interesting link that seems to di...This is a pretty interesting link that seems to disagree with your perspective quite radically.<br /><br /><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_viability" rel="nofollow">Wiki Fetal Viability</a><br /><br />"The subsequent Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992) modified the "trimester framework," permitting the states to regulate abortion in ways not posing an "undue burden" on the right of the mother to an abortion at any point before viability; on account of technological developments between 1973 and 1992, viability itself was legally dissociated from the hard line of 28 weeks, leaving the point at which "undue burdens" were permissible variable depending on the technology of the time and the judgment of the state legislatures."Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-57636256585267801432015-07-08T09:31:59.466-05:002015-07-08T09:31:59.466-05:00Should read "doesn't do enough to move&qu...Should read "doesn't do enough to move"Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-70076630683531094852015-07-08T09:25:15.950-05:002015-07-08T09:25:15.950-05:00"I think per Roe v Wade, "viability"..."I think per Roe v Wade, "viability" is actually the critical milestone, and that continues to get earlier and earlier with each medical advancement. I was amazed per that link that some of the 25 week old preemies were being saved."<br /><br />The fact that a few preemies have been saved before 27-28 weeks does enough move the viability standard off of the current third trimester designation.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-69260794952097436632015-07-08T09:16:37.126-05:002015-07-08T09:16:37.126-05:00Jerry,
Handing out BC like candy may allow people ...Jerry,<br />Handing out BC like candy may allow people to self sterilize and fornicate like rabbits... And if there are no kids... I don't care if they get married or not. It is the kids I am worried about.<br /><br />I think you made an important point:<br />"to accept a "woman and her doctor" (plus husband and counselor) making the decision"<br /><br />The idea that the "Father" has no say in the decision fascinates me.<br /><br />Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-77839304683014552022015-07-08T09:11:15.175-05:002015-07-08T09:11:15.175-05:00That of course is a cop out rationale and likely i...That of course is a cop out rationale and likely incorrect.<br /><br />I think per Roe v Wade, "viability" is actually the critical milestone, and that continues to get earlier and earlier with each medical advancement. I was amazed per that link that some of the 25 week old preemies were being saved.<br /><br />I actually believe that society needs to set some clear rules based around "quality of life", and then the Parents would be free to choose to euthanize a fetus or infant if they wished. The desire to save everyone, even those that are near a vegetative state is not beneficial to anyone. Not even the child who is bed ridden and unaware.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-21721197525165662682015-07-08T09:10:05.170-05:002015-07-08T09:10:05.170-05:00John, long-term birth control should be available ...John, long-term birth control should be available for those that want it, but you KNOW that handing it out like candy is going to lead to an awful lot of casual sex that is not "good" for society and the formation of successful two-parent families. (young married couples being the exception, of course). Now if you want to go back to the idea of sterilizing the "unfit," we can talk about that; it is what you are suggesting, is it not? Eugenics, anyone?jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-92066096333971083162015-07-08T09:02:59.148-05:002015-07-08T09:02:59.148-05:00Sean, ignoring the extremists on both sides, the e...Sean, ignoring the extremists on both sides, the exceptions of "rape, incest, life and reproductive health of the mother and gross fetal deformity" are widely accepted. The pro-choice side seems to like the phrase "abortion on demand," which pro-life people misinterpret (or maybe not), as "abortion for convenience" or "abortion for any reason whatsoever, anytime." It would be a lot easier to accept a "woman and her doctor" (plus husband and counselor) making the decision after careful consideration, with specific exceptions in the later term, rather than in the latter case. I'm not buying that "burden on society" argument, either. People have to be responsible for themselves first, and ask "society" for help if they need it.jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-28076973806010237062015-07-08T08:29:42.443-05:002015-07-08T08:29:42.443-05:00"So you are ok with people euthanizing a 27 w..."So you are ok with people euthanizing a 27 week old living "fetus", however you are not willing to support euthanizing a 27 week old "baby" in it's incubator. Now I really need to hear your rationale..."<br /><br />Because live birth is a critical milestone that bestows more rights. The reality is that any person under the age of 21 in this country does not have full civil rights, and we draw different lines at different ages for bestowing those rights.<br />Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-41501107722235897772015-07-07T22:31:22.254-05:002015-07-07T22:31:22.254-05:00Jerry,
I agree whole heartedly with your comments....Jerry,<br />I agree whole heartedly with your comments.<br /><br />However my pragmatic side says give away a lot of long term birth control, thus cutting the number of abortions significantly, reducing the welfare expenditures, reduce the achievement gap, reduce the crime rate, reduce poverty, reduce public healthcare costs, etc.<br /><br />It seems like a cheap investment with a big payback for all.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-17152684506656149992015-07-07T22:25:55.281-05:002015-07-07T22:25:55.281-05:00Laurie,
I feel greatly for families that go throug...Laurie,<br />I feel greatly for families that go through what Sean's went through. My parent's experienced something similar with a sibling of mine who was stillborn. On the other hand I also feel greatly for the 100,000 babies whose hearts are stilled per year, some for much less serious reasons. (not to mention the 900,000 in the first trimester)<br /><br />Please remember that I proposed what I thought is a very rational compromise. "How about first trimester unless specific abnormalities are present?" And I can even go for a more generic "specific prognosis" wording.<br /><br />I am happy to meet in the middle ground somewhere, but the hard pro choice folks who think that society should have no say in if a healthy fetus is delivered just because it is in a living incubator are a bit extreme for my tastes.<br /><br />The irony is that the same people who are livid regarding capital punishment, foreign wars, LGBT discrimination, etc seem to be able to ignore the stilling of all those healthy innocent human hearts. Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-25026247473634796082015-07-07T21:07:07.288-05:002015-07-07T21:07:07.288-05:00"That is what it is all about for religious c..."That is what it is all about for religious conservatives, imposing their abstinence until marriage morals on everybody." -- Laurie<br /><br />There is a vast difference between imposing abstinence, expecting abstinence from your kids as the 100% effective means of birth control and STD prevention, and asking people to be responsible for the consequences of their own decisions. For example, Little Missy decides to have casual sex, to forgo contraception, and becomes pregnant. How does any of that become the problem and responsibility of the taxpayer? And if the taxpayers are NOT standing by, is it possible that Missy makes better decisions?jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-55114683509930145382015-07-07T20:45:59.114-05:002015-07-07T20:45:59.114-05:00I think parents should have the option to deny ext...I think parents should have the option to deny extrodinary care / life support for a premie with serious health issues / disabilities.<br /><br />Also, John, you are kind of being a jerk with your lack of empathy over what could be very difficult circumstances / decisions for any parent.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09905073449150541750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-30125836901633639952015-07-07T17:59:34.617-05:002015-07-07T17:59:34.617-05:00So you are ok with people euthanizing a 27 week ol...So you are ok with people euthanizing a 27 week old living "fetus", however you are not willing to support euthanizing a 27 week old "baby" in it's incubator. Now I really need to hear your rationale...<br /><br /><a href="http://preemies.about.com/od/readersstories/a/World-S-Smallest-Preemies.htm" rel="nofollow">Worlds Smallest Preemies</a>Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-53358225374738229302015-07-07T14:40:46.997-05:002015-07-07T14:40:46.997-05:00"How about first trimester unless specific ab..."How about first trimester unless specific abnormalities are present? Apparently Texas went for 20 wks unless significant defects are present and the Pro Choice group still is not happy."<br /><br />Third trimester is the earliest I am willing to accept any restrictions. Your link explains why folks aren't happy -- the wording about the defects is written such that almost no defect qualifies as an exception to the 20-week rule.<br /><br />No, I am not OK with euthanizing a born baby with the same defects.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-58208130077378857252015-07-07T14:32:09.001-05:002015-07-07T14:32:09.001-05:00Okay... How about first trimester unless specific...Okay... How about first trimester unless specific abnormalities are present? Apparently Texas went for 20 wks unless significant defects are present and the Pro Choice group still is not happy.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/texas_abortion_ban_after_20_weeks_prenatal_testing_reveals_birth_defects.html" rel="nofollow">Slate Late Abortions</a><br /><br />Just curious. Are you okay we euthanizing a born baby with those same defects?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-90376883169485202762015-07-07T13:40:01.446-05:002015-07-07T13:40:01.446-05:00A first trimester cutoff for abortion is absurd. ...A first trimester cutoff for abortion is absurd. <br /><br />When my wife became pregnant in late 2009, we had the screening test early in the second trimester, and it came back with a result indicating that our child might have a serious chromosomal defect. Children with this defect only make it to birth alive about half the time, and those that do typically live for less than two weeks. My wife had amniocentesis to confirm, and while we were waiting for the results we had hours of discussions over what we would do if the result came back positive. By the time the results were back, it was late in week 21. If you're going to tell me that families in that circumstance shouldn't have the ability to make what is in essence an end-of-life decision, you're not really standing for personal rights and liberties.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-43039270913482803642015-07-07T13:16:29.073-05:002015-07-07T13:16:29.073-05:00"It is amazing how the typical pro choice fol..."It is amazing how the typical pro choice folks can rationalize that those little human hearts do not exist. And that it is okay that 100,000+ of them get sliced and diced every year."<br /><br />That isn't what pro-choice folks believe. Have a nice day.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-82150294949710838112015-07-07T12:56:19.392-05:002015-07-07T12:56:19.392-05:00"Tax payers will be paying so those women can..."Tax payers will be paying so those women can be sexually active/permiscuous"<br /><br />That is what it is all about for religious conservatives, imposing their abstinence until marriage morals on everybody. <br /><br />I am curious about what would be your ideal in terms of relationships for your daughters. Would it be abstinence until marriage? is this realistic (or ideal)? What if they don't marry until age 30 (or ever)?<br /><br />In my house we have had conversations with my son's girlfriend's mother about trying to be sure they are using contraception (they just graduated high school). I figure they are adult at age 18 and can make adult decisions about being sexually active.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09905073449150541750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-92172596197307844522015-07-07T12:47:21.506-05:002015-07-07T12:47:21.506-05:00How about this as a fundamental: Freedom
Free t...How about this as a fundamental: Freedom<br /> Free to get and use contraception, or not.<br /> Free to have sex, protected or not.<br /> Free to obtain an abortion in the early months, before viability (or not).<br /> Freedom for the rest of us from paying for your freedom and your choices.<br /> Freedom for society to expect you to assume the consequences of your choices. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-30566948259577997132015-07-07T12:06:19.089-05:002015-07-07T12:06:19.089-05:00Sean,
Correction: I want to stand between a scapel...Sean,<br />Correction: I want to stand between a scapel and a beating human heart after the first trimester. It is amazing how the typical pro choice folks can rationalize that those <a href="http://www.orble.com/im/002/04/12small1.jpg" rel="nofollow">little human hearts</a> do not exist. And that it is okay that 100,000+ of them get sliced and diced every year.<br /><br />On the upside... I do support physician assisted suicide if that helps...<br /><br />Laurie,<br />I agree, however nothing is free. Tax payers will be paying so those women can be sexually active/permiscuous. It will be a hard sell.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-38596910971962188182015-07-07T10:50:38.549-05:002015-07-07T10:50:38.549-05:00My source and the comment following were unrelated...My source and the comment following were unrelated. I think we could greatly reduce the number of unintended pregnancies with free contraception in the USA and it would save the govt $.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09905073449150541750noreply@blogger.com