Well J thinks this document is important, so let's give it a prime time spot. I have not read the 128 pages yet... However I will peruse it when I get a moment .
In the mean time, J please tell us your interpretation of the document.
American Experiment: Our Immense Achievement Gap
I think it rather precisely describes the wrong solutions currently in place or planned, and then describes the right solutions for the achievement gap. Unfortunately, it doesn't address how we can increase the academic achievement for ALL students. One thing at a time is OK, but hurry! That means quit doing dumb stuff immediately.
ReplyDeleteJ. Ewing
Well, I made it through the Report at a Glance, Forward and Executive Summary, and I definitely agree the integration efforts have got to be some of the most foolish notions I have ever heard of...
ReplyDeleteBesides if my magic number of <10% Free and Reduced Lunch in a school were to be hit. We would probably need to import well to do kids to attain that average... ( ie rich married couples, please start making babies...)
I of course disagree with their solution statement since it does not align to their root cause statement. They repeat over and over that the gap is due to "socioeconomic and family risk factors", yet their solution is to offer "top-notch educational options" (ie Charters?) and "embrace bold innovative reforms" (ie grade and pummel Schools/Teachers?).
From my simple point of view, if "socioeconomic and family risk factors" are the true root cause then these are what we need to attack. Now the question is how?
How can we (ie society, and government) help people overcome the things that trap them in a cycle of poverty? (see G2A: Why are poor people poor?
It seems to me that we had best start before the kid is 5 years old and most of their habits have been engrained. HCZ Program Details See the many Pipeline and Community links.
Now are the Liberals willing to hold Parents, Students, Teachers and Schools accountable? And are Conservatives willing to give the Social Services and Schools adequate funding and authority over Parents/Students to make it happen...
Not likely... So we will probably be facing the gap for a long time. By the way, thanks for giving me a link that affirms the root cause is "socioeconomic and family risk factors". I was pretty certain, but it is nice to see it in writing.
For those who wonder why I see busing as an ineffective solution. The reality is that many folks that live in the Wayzata and Orono districts can afford private schools. Or they will move out to Wright county and buy a scenic acreage. 7 County Map Delano is a great district... And I always wanted a pole barn...
I can't get the link to work right now. But whatever the societal root causes of the of the achievement gap, the solution that' within the scope of our schools is to make our schools better. And we certainly have done well. But we need to better.
ReplyDelete--Hiram
FYI. I just double checked and it is working. It is a PDF if that makes a difference.
ReplyDeleteThen it just doesn't seem to be working for my elderly Kaypro. Oh well. As it happens, I have never met a kid with an achievement gap. If they start turning up in our schools in significant numbers, I think we should do something about it.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is, our schools are a lot better than they used to be, and do a better job educating all of our kids than they once did. I hope the report made that point.
--Hiram
"By the way, thanks for giving me a link that affirms the root cause is 'socioeconomic and family risk factors'."
ReplyDeletePerhaps you are correct about the root cause; I'm not quite sure how that hierarchy of causality applies in this case. My best guess, however, is that "the poor" are the underlying (not root) cause, which we maybe cannot address without herculean effort, and the PROXIMATE cause, the thing that we have to go after first, is that the schools don't work. After all, poverty doesn't cause the GAP, it causes some to start behind others. That the gap persists or grows larger, that these kids never "catch up" simply must be because the schools are not teaching properly, and I base that on the obvious fact that these factors are not PREDICTIVE of individual student success or failure. What matters is what education "system" they manage to find. That is, failing schools fail kids. It is not a trite statement. It is the problem statement.
I'm even going to quibble with the notion that poverty, etc. is a "root cause," because if the schools were educating every kid to their full potential and inculcating American values as they should, poverty (etc.) would largely cease as a multi-generational curse.
J.Ewing
Hiram,
ReplyDeleteI am not sure if the schools are better or worse, though I agree they are certainly different. (ie less concentrated focus on basics and more offerings/variety... good/bad???)
J,
I finally got smart and severely curtailed giving unsolicited advice to people against their will. The reality finally occured to me that it is near impossible to coach or educate those that do not want to learn and change.
It may happen in some cases, but it is rare. And even more rare once those limiting beliefs and behaviors have been secured firmly as habits. And by age 5 a lot of important things have started to set up like mortar.
I am not sure if the schools are better or worse, though I agree they are certainly different.
ReplyDeleteIt's what the numbers show. I am sure the report made that point.
--Hiram
One of the interesting things about these numbers is the 4th grade reading numbers for black kids. They are low, but something of an outlier. I don't know why those numbers are where they are. Could it have something to do with the makeup of the black population in Minnesota? Maybe Minnesota has a higher number of non English speakers in the black community than the national norm. I just don't know. But I don't think these numbers have a lot of significance. As I said, they seem to be outliers.
ReplyDelete--Hiram
I'm saving this tome for a rainy / snowy evening. But regardless of what the true cause is, I assume that if the public schools knew what to do they would do it, shaming the unions into work rule changes etc if need be.
ReplyDeleteWhat bothers me most though is how they claim to know every fall (sign up here!), report failure every spring. Oh, and they're not to blame! We'll take care of everything they say in August, then why didn't you get more involved they say in June.
I agree that poor Teachers and a system that protects and rewards them are part of the problem. And lord knows they have a hard time focusing on excellence in the core curriculums.
ReplyDeleteHowever I do seem to remember them telling us that we need to spend more on early childhood education and programs for the "at risk" students, if we want to succeed.
Yet we keep telling them to make it happen with what we have given them. (ie no MN Miracle II reqd)
Then we keep pointing at each other while the students suffer...
Perhaps we should add to the list of things that don't work the giving of more money when the money previously given to schools produced zero tangible results. Perhaps we should also add to the list of things that don't work Head Start programs or Early Childhood Education by another name. If the schools do not know how to teach five-year-olds to read, they probably don't know how to teach reading readiness to four-year-olds either. And if they can't teach kids to read in the first grade, or the second grade, or the third-grade, it seems they give up trying to teach the kid to read at all, and blame the kid! Or the parents, or lack of funding, all of which are provably NOT the cause of that huge achievement gap.
ReplyDeleteYes, some kids start school with disadvantages, but the easiest way to overcome those disadvantages is by switching from a school which doesn't work, and we know WHY, and switching to a school which DOES work, and we know why that is, too. So long as we allow schools to make excuses for poor performance, and I do not care what they are, they will continue to give us poor performance and that is not acceptable. This report says that we know what works. There should be no excuse for not doing it.
J. Ewing
Here's another perspective on Forida schools and school reform in general:
ReplyDeleteDiane Ravitch speaks about Florida's struggling education system
Aside from all the boring stupid stuff that made up the majority of her paper, I actually agreed with Kersten on some of the points she made on the two pages devoted to closing the achievement gap.
J,
ReplyDeleteOf course we know what has to be fixed... It says so right in the paper..."socioeconomic and family risk factors"...
And we have a pretty well proven system in the HCZ of how to do it. So it looks like more early and parent ed is needed and not less. Yet the Conservatives keep fighting it. Very confusing...
And it seems to me that Diane's comments show that she has moved to the far Left on this, or she believes saying these things is the only way she balance the far Right's near religious zeal.
ReplyDeleteBoth sides definitely make for some interesting reading.
I don't see where conservatives are "fighting it" at all. Every one I know things the HCZ is a great PRIVATE school and works wonders. We also support other PRIVATE schools (and even a few public school initiatives) which are less about ending poverty and confine themselves to simply providing a good education for all kids by "higher expectations, effective teaching, solid curriculum." (I paraphrase). This canard that conservatives are blocking school reform is wearing thin.
ReplyDeleteJ. Ewing
It seems to me that the Public Schools have been asking for funding and authority that is adequate to replicate the HCZ methodologies, yet they are continually denied them.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, given the stories regarding incompetent Teachers that are still employed. (4 yrs and counting since I first heard these particular horror stories) I can't say I would trust them with any more money or authority until they can clean their own house.
So it looks like a shoot out between Liberals and Conservatives, I wonder who will blink first?
"...Public Schools have been asking for funding and authority that is adequate to replicate the HCZ methodologies..."
ReplyDeleteI think there are two flaws in your statement here. First off, I believe the public schools already HAVE the funding necessary – I believe the HCZ schools cost less than the New York public schools. They gain the authority because people voluntarily agree to assume parental responsibilities in exchange for their child's participation. Since public school is mandatory, that is all the authority they have (and should need, with a good educational model). The second problem is your suggestion that their funding the public schools keep requesting is to "replicate the HCZ methodology." There is no evidence that that is what they would do with the money. In fact, we have done nothing but give them more money every year for the last 30 and education has barely improved, if at all, and particularly so for those on the wrong side of the "gap." I find myself beating the same old drum, that the only way to improve the public schools is to demand that the public schools improve and to quit allowing them excuses for not doing so. We know how to educate better. Perhaps we could make a good start if we quit doing things that made it worse?
J. Ewing
"I believe the HCZ schools cost less than the New York public schools."
ReplyDeleteThat is incorrect. HCZ achieves astonishing results, for which they deserve full credit. HCZ also receives per student funding from NY state roughly in line with what a public school receives, plus they privately raise around $3,500 per student, PLUS they receive additinal private funding for all of the areas that aren't directly academic in nature, including after school tutoring, health and dental care for the children, administrative costs, a private chef who ensures healthy meals, and incentives for student performance. They raise $75 million in private funds annually and have an endowment of $145 million.
I think it's safe to assume HCZ pays a premium to achieve it's incredibly successful results.
On a similar note, there was an interesting piece in Sunday's Strib about Dayton's Bluff elementary in St. Paul. They put forth a Herculean effort into eliminating the achievement gap and succeeded. And then when the economy tanked they had a year of tremendous student mobility and their scores went back to where they started, because the kids who had benefitted from their work moved away and they were starting from scratch with new kids.
--Annie
Star Tribune: Success and then Set Back
ReplyDeletethat is a fascinating story, about the Dayton's Bluff school. If you read it carefully, it says that the school was "reconstituted" – all teachers had to reapply for their jobs, receive extra training, and focus on the individual children to improve learning. Standards (i.e. expectations) were raised, discipline instilled and, most importantly IMHO, excuses were ended under new management. These are all things that any public school could do and would go a long way towards reducing the achievement gap.
ReplyDeleteWhere the extra money seems to be required is in tacking on all of the additional social services required to keep the children focused on education rather than the chaos at home, and to give them some semblance of the "care" that they might not otherwise get. Now you might expect, hardhearted conservative that I am, that I would oppose such "additional" spending, but I don't. I firmly believe that current government programs spend too much to foolishly, and that targeted programs such as those described in this story have a much better "return on investment."
It does tend to make me more susceptible to John's argument that poverty does, indeed, play a role in decreased academic achievement where it is as concentrated and virulent as the neighborhood described in the story. The problem with recognizing it is that it provides the public schools with an excuse for not doing all of the other things that they could do WITHOUT tackling the long-term intractability of the poverty "problem."
I think what we have here is the example of what I have been suggesting, which is that we have to target those things that we can do right now to improve education, and to do it for every child – no child left behind. Over time, this human rights imperative should start to feedback and reduce poverty, providing a positive feedback loop to improve education still further (and easier). We can alleviate poverty for these children with the kind of targeted social services described in the article but, as also described, we can't do anything to eliminate the existence of poverty unless we start giving kids an opportunity to escape it with better educations.
J. Ewing