Per Moose's request...
BBC Can Trump Share Top Secret Info?
WAPO On Campaign vs Now
MM Fox Rushes to Defend Trump
Fox News Sharing was Wholly Appropriate
I know pretty much nothing about this and it seems it is pretty vague. Maybe more concrete information will come out some time.
"No word on Trump's treason today? I'm just fascinated by all the down-playing and spin, spin, spin that's happening from the corrupt administration today. I mean...this is far worse than Hillary's emails...yet..." MooseVOX Leaking is Outrageous, not Treason
BBC Can Trump Share Top Secret Info?
WAPO On Campaign vs Now
MM Fox Rushes to Defend Trump
Fox News Sharing was Wholly Appropriate
I know pretty much nothing about this and it seems it is pretty vague. Maybe more concrete information will come out some time.
From Laurie...
ReplyDeleteI may restart my service of posting frequent links of what is wrong with Trump. There is no shortage of people expounding on this.
Trump doesn’t embody what’s wrong with Washington. Pence does.
so what are your thought on your guy Trump these days, John?
here is one more link:
The Plum Line Opinion
Trump’s overseas trip must be canceled. The risks are too great.
When the World is Led by a Child
Laurie,
ReplyDeleteYou seem to have forgotten, I voted against Hillary...
And to keep that far Liberal candidate out of office, I voted for a self centered narcissist moderate who I hoped could grow into the position. Unfortunately he seems to be failing miserably.
On the upside, my vote did not really count since Hillary won MN... It's good to not be responsible for Trump being in office.
And on the upside I have not had to listen to Hillary give one speech and the comics have been making me laugh with their Trump jokes / impersonations.
Another benefit is that Trump did get a slightly Right Leaning Justice to replace Scalia... Thereby keeping SCOTUS balanced.
ReplyDeleteAnd his cabinet picks are hopefully cutting back on Federal regulations and spending...
So if he does not get us all blown up, I guess he is doing okay.
CNN White House Struggles to Explain
ReplyDeleteAnd now the Comey memo saying that Trump asked him to drop the Flynn case.
Simply amazing !!!
didn't you fill in the circle next to Trump's name? sounds like a Trump vote to me and that was after I provided at least 50 links relating to how unfit Trump was to be president. and about Gorsuch....
ReplyDeleteNeil Gorsuch could be the most conservative justice on the Supreme Court
Part of the deal here is to avoid taking the extreme, strawman-like positions, others are trying to impose on us. The cooler heads are the ones that should prevail right now. Accusing Trump of treason just isn't a direction there is any point in going. Bobby Knight, the other day, took the trouble to go on Fox News and said that Donald Trump loves America. I am willing to take Coach Knight's word on that.
ReplyDeleteThat aside, barely a hundred days into his term, Trump has made a series of disastrous mistakes. I am struck by how he seems to be sort of rhyming with the pasts, doing the things he criticized his opponents for, in ways that are much worse. He spent the whole campaign taking about breaches of security related to Hillary's email, without ever proving there had been any. And then when president, he invites the Russians into the Oval Office and promptly, and needlessly turns over top secret information to them. During the campaign, he complained endlessly about a chance meeting between an AG and an ex president. Then just days in, he intentionally, as president, invites the FBI director to a private dinner, and does the very worst thing he could have accused Clinton of, interfere with an FBI investigation. All of these matters raise concerns that aren't necessarily treason but are evidence of offenses that are impeachable.
--Hiram
Laurie,
ReplyDeleteThanks to the electoral college system that many Liberals complain about... The person that I filled in the circle next to lost... Therefore NONE of MN's electoral votes went to support Trump winning the election.
Now would I have been happier with Hillary in the White House... I don't think so. Our country has been moving Left for a long time, I think some correction back to the Right may be a good thing.
As for Gorsuch, I just think of him as Scalia's appropriate replacement. Now I know that the Liberals wanted to stack the SCOTUS with Liberal Justices... But as you know, I would prefer to keep it balanced. Hopefully those Liberal Justices can hold out until 2021...
Hiram,
ReplyDeleteYes I kind of hope that Congress would grow a pair and impeach / fire Trump... Pence would be a much more stable / effective leader.
I think Trump is unfit to be president, and he has certainly provided us with an outline for articles of impeachment. But I have to be mindful of my own case of Trump Derangement Syndrome. The guy was elected. Sort of. And does have claims to legitimacy that must be acknowledged. While we can't say that his election represents the will of the American people, he was elected according to law by the process in place.
ReplyDelete--Hiram
The big question is are his actions as President impeachable offenses?
ReplyDeleteThe big question is are his actions as President impeachable offenses?
ReplyDeleteAnd that's a political question. For the moment, Trump retains the support he needs in Congress. It's hard to imagine that changing, but lots of things have changed recently that I would never have imagined.
Nixon left office because he lost Republican support in Congress. That happened in a less polarized political era, one that didn't have Fox News holding a metaphorical gun to Republican metaphorical heads. But then, Nixon never melted down in quite the same way Trump seems to be melting down now.
--Hiram
I am thinking about calling him Whiner in Chief
ReplyDeleteIf a President can be impeached for lying about a blowjob, I think it's safe to say that Trump's offenses are impeachable.
ReplyDeleteMoose
Make that "lying under oath" and you have quite a different argument.
ReplyDeleteAnd I would argue that everything Trump is trying to do is good for the country, and those opposed want to continue us down the "wrong direction" that "the Establishment" has taken us for far too long. Such a disruptive Executive, necessary in dire situations, is bound to cause a lot of backlash, much of it over trivialities blown far out of proportion. What else would you call a "resist" movement? It's irrational.
Jerry,
ReplyDeleteTrump unfortunately brings most of this upon himself.
He is argumentative, critical, likes to attack, loose with the truth, speaks without thinking, and egotistical.
I have no problem with his goals, it is his total lack of what people said he would bring to the office. He was supposed to be a smart professional capable deal maker who would get things done.
Instead he bumbles along like a bull in the china closet.
Maybe that is a flaw of always being "the Boss", he really has few interpersonal collaborative skills in his tool box. And most focused on bullying and buying (ie offering money / service for agreement)...
Neither of which works in the government or other large diverse organizations. And in many cases they are illegal...
"What else would you call a "resist" movement? It's irrational."
ReplyDeleteSo was it irrational when the Tea Party and GOP did everything they could to stop the DEMs and Obama for 6 years? Or when they spent millions of tax dollars on Benghazi, Hillary's email, etc. And far more on White Water etc... It just seems to be how partisan politics are played in America now days...
'Make that "lying under oath" and you have quite a different argument.'
ReplyDeleteMissing the point, as usual.
Moose
"And I would argue that everything Trump is trying to do is good for the country..."
ReplyDeleteBut, but, but, her emails...
Moose
"Now I know that the Liberals wanted to stack the SCOTUS with Liberal Justices.."
ReplyDeleteWhen liberals hold the Presidency for 16 out of 24 years, you're going to get liberal Justices nominated to the Court. That's how the system works -- just as it did when Republicans controlled the White House for 20 of 28 years and replaced Thurgood Marshall with Clarence Thomas.
I edited to of Moose's comments since one never knows if children may read this stimulating discussion. :-)
ReplyDelete"If a President can be impeached for lying about a "sexual relations", I think it's safe to say that Trump's offenses are impeachable." Moose
""...much of it over trivialities blown far out of proportion."
"You mean, like a "sexual relations" are trivial, I presume." Moose
Sean,
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I was just making the point that both sides do it. I am just happy that in this case SCOTUS stayed balanced.
Moose,
I am not sure we have seen anything proven regarding Trump. As I was noted in the links over HERE.
But I think continued investigation is warranted.
Silly question. Let us assume that the new special prosecutor looks at the evidence, chases down a few leads and, in a month or two, says there is absolutely no evidence of any crime or any impropriety, or as Comey said in the Hillary case, there was LOTS of evidence but nothing that could be prosecuted. So, when that gets announced, is ANY Democrat going to come forward and say, "OK, that's it, we won't talk about it any more"?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure they will be as silent as the GOP was about Benghazi, Obama's Birth Certificate, etc, etc... :-)
ReplyDeleteI mean you spent 8 years venting about Obama, do you think will do any differently?
when that gets announced, is ANY Democrat going to come forward and say, "OK, that's it, we won't talk about it any more"?
ReplyDeleteIt's more likely to happen with us, at least to some extent, than it is with Republicans for several reasons. First, we have other things to talk about. We have a positive agenda. Republicans largely don't, so they mostly have to borrow ours. Also, we don't have the equivalent of Fox News with it's relentless focusing on messaging. It's the difference between Bill O'Reilly and Rachel Maddow. When Bill has something to say, he says it, over and over again in very focused terms. If you watch Rachel, you can see it takes half hours for her to wander onto her point on which she finds it impossible to stay on.
But most of all, the problem is with Trump. He is a manufacturer of political crisis. They are lined up waiting to land like passenger jets at a busy airport. By the time the Mueller investigation is anywhere near completed, I fully expect it's conclusions will be buried in batches of crises still unfolding.
--Hiram
I like Putin's comment the best. He said (paraphrased), "Comrade Lavrov is in real trouble. He has refused to disclose to me the secrets President Trump revealed to him."
ReplyDeleteAnd we know that Mr Putin is of high moral character and above lying to achieve his goals... Really?
ReplyDeleteWe know Mr. Putin has a wicked sense of humor, on display here. As Agent K of MIB might say, "we're liberals, and we have no sense of humor of which we are aware."
ReplyDeleteAre you truly okay with Trump sharing confidential data with the Russians?
ReplyDeleteThis after all your railing about Clinton just having some of that information on her secured personal server? With no proof that any foreign power had ever gained access to it...
What is your rationale?
Rationale? I know the difference between apples and rutabagas.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all nobody except the parties involved know anything about what was said. If you do, Somebody violated the law In telling you.
Clinton's email server was illegal. Having classified information on it was illegal. Whatever security she may or may not have had was not adequate to the legal standard, and any breach of that security was her responsibility, whether intended or not. She was "very careless" and that is the same thing as "gross negligence," which is a violation of the law, whether intentional or not.
Trump on the other hand, can classify or declassify anything he pleases. He has stated that he shared certain information, WHATEVER it was, to gain Russian cooperation in the fight against ISIS and against terrorism in general and in particular. It worked, by everything that we know about subsequent Russian actions.
Please remember that Clinton was cleared by the FBI and Justice Dept. Even Trump agreed to not go through the useless effort of trying to prosecute her.
ReplyDeleteI am happy you trust the President and Russians so much. I think neither of them have earned that trust. And Trump may end up on charges for his big mouth yet. That obstruction of justice charge could hurt if it happens. Thank heavens for that Independent Prosecutor.
Let's see justice done.
"Justice" would be for Hillary to be in stripes for clear violations of the Federal records act, the espionage act, perjury before Congress, and obstruction of justice. Bill Clinton, on the other hand, would probably be out of jail now on HIS obvious obstruction of justice conviction.
ReplyDeleteHillary was not "cleared." She was "allowed to skate."
I think the independent prosecutor is a waste of time. He cannot possibly find anything worthy of prosecution and, if he did, the Republican Congress would never impeach him. And unless said prosecutor does find some terrible, horrible crime, the Democrats will never, ever stop ranting and raving that there is.
"Treason n. the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill the sovereign or overthrow the government."
ReplyDeleteIt appears you have a definitional problem. Trump cannot be accused of attempting to kill the sovereign, nor is he trying to overthrow the government, but rather simply to manage it.
If anybody is guilty of treason in these last few months it is those opposed to Trump, leakers in the "deep state," and the Democrats trying to overthrow him.
Jerry,
ReplyDeleteI think your comment on the other string was prophetic of your behavior here...
"I have also been having a lengthy discussion elsewhere about "confirmation bias." my point there has been that, nowadays, any "news story" is repeated so many times in such a short time span that, by the time it is proven to be a lie, only those whose knowledge, experience and bias led them to believe it was a lie in the first place will accept that truth. Everybody else will go right on believing the lie and deny the truth." Jerry
Apparently in this case you are one of the "everybodies"...
So perhaps you can be helpful, here? Surely you have noticed how rarely minds are changed by our discussions? Why do you believe that is so? Are every one of us possessed of "the truth" even though those truths are contradictory or even mutually exclusive?
ReplyDeleteLet me make a suggestion. Each of us forms an opinion based on facts and experience, and then we seek out "confirmation" of that opinion rather than its opposite. IF we are presented, clearly and repeatedly, with indisputable facts and evidence, we may be forced to change, but too often we "agree to disagree" and the truth, whichever side has it, remains what it always was.
So, in simple terms, convince me. Dazzle me with logic and smother me with facts. Unless we are discussing your opinion, and on that I will readily bow to your expertise.
I'll start with the State budget spend increase over time... That one should be pretty black and white...
ReplyDelete