CNN The depressing predictability of the immigration debate. Apparently the DEMs will block the GOP Moderate's bill over border security funding... It is very odd that DEMs are against government spending in this case... I mean they have no problem spending hundreds of billions each year on social programs, however they won't make a one time payment to protect the Dreamers and to put the immigration topic behind us.
"What's more: Even if, by hook or by crook, the House manages to pass this compromise bill, it's virtually certain to be dead on arrival in the Senate. Even if all 50 Republican senators voted for it -- John McCain remains in Arizona battling brain cancer -- the bill would need 10 votes from Democrats to bring it to the floor for debate. And unless you have been living on another planet for the last few years, you know that 10 Democrats ain't voting for legislation that provides $25 billion in funding for a southern border wall."It is interesting how the DEMs seemed to have no more desire to solve this immigration issue than the GOP folks. Maybe they are the ones wanting to use the Dreamers in the election.
Sean said the following in the previous post's comments. "The Democratic Party or "liberals" aren't generally supporting open borders, no control, no limits, or any of the other nonsense you've tried to attribute to them in this thread. You can see what they voted for in 2013. You can see the sort of proposals brought forward earlier this year (like McCain-Coons or Graham-Durbin)."
Since they are reluctant to compromise now, I am thinking this is more about DEM politics than helping people. Over there I posted the following comment and questions:
Since they are reluctant to compromise now, I am thinking this is more about DEM politics than helping people. Over there I posted the following comment and questions:
"Ultimately this comes down to what is the purpose of the American Immigration policy?
- To help 1+ million people a year enter the "American Lifeboat".
- To help America succeed by bringing in people who can help our country thrive.
Or just assuming 1 million per year...What mix of the above?
I think 200,000 "Life Boaters" and 800,00 "Make America Greaters" sounds much wiser than our current mix.
That way we can afford to keep helping people in their home countries.
We apparently let ~1.6 million people immigrate her in 2016, and we are near a record rate... So:
- How many immigrants per year is the correct amount?
- What should be the characteristics of people we allow in?
A couple of interesting VOX pieces:
ReplyDeleteVOX Obama vs Trump Numbers
VOX Keeping Families Together Has Problems
VOX Border Patrol Officer Check Points
ReplyDeleteWe have to get away from this idea of making deals. Republicans have the votes; they need to find a way to use them.
ReplyDelete--Hiram
Hiram,
ReplyDeleteNow you are the one trying to mislead people. To pass these items in the Senate requires 60 votes and you know it. So why did you just try to "lie" to us?
If the moderate DEMs do not act and negotiate, they are as guilty as the GOPers.
Of course if you look at the chart on this link, the number of "moderates" in each party keeps falling as the citizens become more divided.
ReplyDeleteAs I noted in the other thread, the "compromises" being made in the House bill are compromises being made between groups of Republicans. If you need Democratic votes to pass something, well, you better talk to Democrats and make sure they have a reason to vote for it. The assumption that Democrats should have to swallow a bunch of bad policy they don't support to help Republicans fix crises that their own President has created is nonsense.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately the DEMs are pretty entrenched in wanting:
ReplyDelete- low border security funding
- pardons / path to citizenship for past border jumpers (beyond dreamers)
- fewer "Make American Greaters" and more "Life Boaters / Extend Family Reunification"
So my point stands: I think the DEMs are playing politics and delaying a solution...
I think we are really going to get tired of this topic before Nov.
Graham-Durbin increased border security funding, eliminated the visa lottery program and limited "chain migration".
ReplyDeleteIt's easy to win an argument against a caricature. Congratulations!
This bill got 46 Democratic votes in the Senate. It provides an additional $25B in border security, and prohibits parents of DACA recipients from sponsoring their parents for citizenship.
ReplyDeleteLet's also not forget that it was Donald Trump who walked away from wall funding offered by Schumer in January.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the links. When I get time I will try figure out the fine sticking points... Unless you know them off the top of your head?
ReplyDeleteI would like to argue that a "compromise" is almost never the best solution to anything, especially with a "divided country" as has been said. I believe there is a "correct" solution here, based on fundamental principles, and one side or the other knows it (though putting it into real legislation is a bit difficult). The process should revolve around the "consensus" rather than the "compromise." Compromise simply insures that only half the good idea gets mixed with half the bad idea, and the problem remains unsolved. If all the Republicans agree but NO Democrats are convinced, or vice versa, it is likely one or the other are playing politics, not looking to solve the problem.
ReplyDeleteJohn, thanks for the chart, and I think it proves my point, sort of. Leadership of the GOP tends to be near the center of the membership, while leadership of the Democrats seems to skew to the left. That tells me agreeing with Republicans could happen EXCEPT for D Party discipline.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like both McConnell and Schumer are quite a ways from center.
ReplyDeleteDid not see that in the chart. There were about 5 dots clustered in the "top leadership" of both parties. That is what I was looking at. Judging by the public statements made by both, the Leftists seem farther away from "moderate" than do the GOP leaders. And indeed, it appears D's have a wider spread, despite less apparent "tolerance" of differing views.
ReplyDeleteSome DEMs want to abolish ICE
ReplyDelete