tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post1474064662348480645..comments2024-03-28T10:08:06.291-05:00Comments on Give2Attain: Obamacare: Shifting Costs Where?Johnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-4041497871884123552013-09-19T11:22:17.197-05:002013-09-19T11:22:17.197-05:00Whether the government is paying for it or charity...Whether the government is paying for it or charity is providing it, the cost of the care is the same.<br /><br />Besides, under what nonsensical scenario are you talking about where hospitals don't attempt to collect for such care? You better believe they're trying to collect from everyone who walks into their ER.<br /><br />You should read up on what the law actually says on this point.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_ActSeanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-8106733082154929502013-09-19T09:32:24.181-05:002013-09-19T09:32:24.181-05:00"That's all well and good, except for the..."That's all well and good, except for the fact that we have laws that require hospitals to provide emergency care, even to the indigent."<br /><br />All you are pointing out is that the government has already made matters worse by passing laws against common sense and the free market. There is nothing wrong with the law as far as compassion goes, but it assumes that hospitals, many of whom are charitable organizations, would not be compassionate of their own volition. It then ignores the reality that "free" stuff will be used by "freeloaders" on the system. The solution is simple. Rescind the law and permit hospitals to claim a tax credit for unpaid care, and to bill everybody for the care they receive in the ER. If the freeloaders get a bill, they will stop coming, while those truly needy still get care and the rest of us "pay" through taxes for them. I know, it's "welfare," but at least it's "get-well fair." jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-4458575407442175012013-09-18T10:37:33.841-05:002013-09-18T10:37:33.841-05:00The only person who should be deciding how much he...The only person who should be deciding how much health care I need is I<br /><br />Not even I would propose anything as radical or revolutionary as that. But if you are serious about giving patients total autonomy over health care decision, I say go for it.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-26564098235882892762013-09-18T10:08:45.024-05:002013-09-18T10:08:45.024-05:00"The only person who should be deciding how m..."The only person who should be deciding how much health care I need is I. The person deciding how much of the anticipated expense I want covered by insurance, and what I am willing to pay for that insurance, is I. The person deciding what health care I need, and what they must be paid for it, is the doctor I choose, and the amount I pay for insurance should be set by the insurance company and coverage I choose on the competitive market, NOT by the government," <br /><br />That's all well and good, except for the fact that we have laws that require hospitals to provide emergency care, even to the indigent. Somebody's got to pay for that. The "logical" response would be -- no insurance and no way to pay, you bleed out on the corner. But we don't do that, so there's got to be a way to ensure everyone chips in to the system.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-55580681918652969022013-09-18T09:18:56.313-05:002013-09-18T09:18:56.313-05:00"However, it seems to me that if governments ..."However, it seems to me that if governments are going to be required (at least in part) to pick up the tab for the costs of medical care, they should have some say in regulating how health care is provided."<br /><br />And there is the crux of the problem, right there. The only person who should be deciding how much health care I need is I. The person deciding how much of the anticipated expense I want covered by insurance, and what I am willing to pay for that insurance, is I. The person deciding what health care I need, and what they must be paid for it, is the doctor I choose, and the amount I pay for insurance should be set by the insurance company and coverage I choose on the competitive market, NOT by the government, <br /><br />Government currently pays, directly or indirectly, for about 1/2 of the health care delivered in this country, and that influence causes our costs to be about twice what they would be without this influence. Obamacare would simply shift costs further, and UP, for everybody. At some point rationing, either of quality or availability, will set in or the whole system will become unaffordable. "Affordable Care Act" -- HA! it is to laugh, except this is life or death we're talking about. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-41906490526292015002013-09-17T12:45:30.074-05:002013-09-17T12:45:30.074-05:00I actually just read through the whole thing... An...I actually just read through the whole thing... Any preference what is next? I'll give it some thought.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-15268533419122044452013-09-17T12:27:05.901-05:002013-09-17T12:27:05.901-05:00Reasonable is in the eye of the beholder, one imag...Reasonable is in the eye of the beholder, one imagines. However, it seems to me that if governments are going to be required (at least in part) to pick up the tab for the costs of medical care, they should have some say in regulating how health care is provided. And if we're going to dictate that everyone gets emergency care no matter what, their interest as the final guarantor of a minimum level of health care is only enhanced.<br /><br />The reality is that today, in the individual market, insurance companies don't provide "a la carte" pricing for health insurance and probably wouldn't under your utopian free market arrangement, because it would increase their complexity and overhead. (Not unlike why we don't have such pricing for cable or satellite TV)Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-82827424060683785862013-09-17T06:56:20.953-05:002013-09-17T06:56:20.953-05:00Not different at all, if "Dad" is the go...Not different at all, if "Dad" is the government<br /><br />Is it different if Dad is the Dad?<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-66820040657258017432013-09-16T17:10:37.834-05:002013-09-16T17:10:37.834-05:00"State regulations that go above and beyond f..."State regulations that go above and beyond federal standards have long been deemed acceptable."<br /><br />Acceptable in the law, perhaps, but are they reasonable? Should a state have the authority to forbid purchase of products not made locally?jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-65174630940962580642013-09-16T16:19:20.526-05:002013-09-16T16:19:20.526-05:00"Sorry to burst your bubble, but those dictat..."Sorry to burst your bubble, but those dictates already exist. Every single state regulates what is covered in a health insurance policy (to varying extents)."<br /><br />No argument on that, and it is worse because most employees are covered under a group plan of some sort, the terms of which are pretty well fixed. I was referring to the ideal, the "anti-Obamacare" or "free market solution." Obamacare simply goes further in what is already the wrong direction. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-2550019741498277172013-09-16T16:18:20.379-05:002013-09-16T16:18:20.379-05:00"I guess since we got so hung up on that prov..."I guess since we got so hung up on that provision of the Constitution that says the federal government regulates interstate commerce. And it's maybe a free market thing?"<br /><br />State regulations that go above and beyond federal standards have long been deemed acceptable. Besides, I would argue that allowing states' rights to be short-circuited in such a way has often proved not to be helpful to consumers. For instance, having America's credit card industry run under the laws of Delaware and South Dakota (where they were literally written by the industry) has not worked in the interests of the public.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-1227063019509278072013-09-16T16:15:44.340-05:002013-09-16T16:15:44.340-05:00Sorry, I'm not going to wade through that bill...Sorry, I'm not going to wade through that bill. My personal experience is with my father, with scant days to live, being told that he had to leave the hospital because Medicare would no longer cover his stay. I offered to pay and was told that was not allowed under Medicare rules. Also, that is the rule under Canada's socialized medicine system and I have no reason to believe that Obama's is any different. Like Medicare and Medicaid, if they do not pay, the doctor may not accept private payment.jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-76680928359758592652013-09-16T16:13:15.565-05:002013-09-16T16:13:15.565-05:00"it is a contract between you and the company..."it is a contract between you and the company as to what is covered, what is not, and to what degree. You supposedly pay for what you want and you get that."<br /><br />Sorry to burst your bubble, but those dictates already exist. Every single state regulates what is covered in a health insurance policy (to varying extents).Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-64753656864513120962013-09-16T16:09:33.015-05:002013-09-16T16:09:33.015-05:00"You won't even be allowed to pay for it ..."You won't even be allowed to pay for it yourself." <br /><br />Where in the bill does it say that, exactly?Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-40102284051504977742013-09-16T16:08:37.052-05:002013-09-16T16:08:37.052-05:00"Since when do conservatives favor federal sh..."Since when do conservatives favor federal short-circuiting of states' rights?"<br /><br />I guess since we got so hung up on that provision of the Constitution that says the federal government regulates interstate commerce. And it's maybe a free market thing?jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-84043651913436904832013-09-16T16:07:04.619-05:002013-09-16T16:07:04.619-05:00"You mean like an insurance company does?&quo..."You mean like an insurance company does?"<br /><br />No, I mean like government does. If you were completely free to buy an insurance policy for yourself, or even to the degree you are now, it is a contract between you and the company as to what is covered, what is not, and to what degree. You supposedly pay for what you want and you get that. When government dictates, it dictates. Under Obamacare you are required to buy insurance, it is required to cover x, y and z plus a lot of other things. If that doesn't cover what you actually have, tough, or if it costs more money than some plutocrat thinks you're worth (say you're 75 years old or belong to the Tea Party) then you don't get your life saved. You won't even be allowed to pay for it yourself. NOT a system I care to live (or die) under. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-63519813061407717142013-09-16T15:50:00.320-05:002013-09-16T15:50:00.320-05:00"we can't even buy insurance across state..."we can't even buy insurance across state lines"<br /><br />Since when do conservatives favor federal short-circuiting of states' rights?Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-26346283249246057692013-09-16T15:48:17.948-05:002013-09-16T15:48:17.948-05:00"Not different at all, if "Dad" is ..."Not different at all, if "Dad" is the government. They are going to decide what or when you may drive, or whether you live or die, on the same cold, unreasoning basis."<br /><br />You mean, like an insurance company does?Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-21162903950688653562013-09-16T15:44:12.957-05:002013-09-16T15:44:12.957-05:00"The government doesn't dictate what kind..."The government doesn't dictate what kind of care I need to drive, or the the kind of health care I need. "<br /><br />That's an odd sort of statement, when that is EXACTLY what is happening today, and has been for many years. I would like to buy a car without all the whiz-bang "safety" and "environmental" features, but government prohibits that choice, making my car more expensive. Government tells insurance companies what "minimum" things they must cover-- often including drug treatment and mental health that I don't need, and maternity coverage that old bachelor farmers don't need. Most of us aren't allowed to buy HSA's, and we can't even buy insurance across state lines. Obamacare just makes that worse. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-22306424841883916562013-09-16T15:39:28.976-05:002013-09-16T15:39:28.976-05:00Not different at all, if "Dad" is the go...Not different at all, if "Dad" is the government. They are going to decide what or when you may drive, or whether you live or die, on the same cold, unreasoning basis. Do you really want your health care managed by the IRS?jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-48086838543900695122013-09-16T15:04:35.400-05:002013-09-16T15:04:35.400-05:00An interesting point, for me at least, is that is ...An interesting point, for me at least, is that is that a party which rejects relativism and subscribes to absolutism makes relativist arguments while failing recognize an absolute when it sees one. To make my point consider how fundamentally different the question, "Dad, can I have the car on Saturday night?" is different from the question "Dad, can I have a bone marrow transplant to save my life?"<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-14221303978328099982013-09-16T14:23:28.034-05:002013-09-16T14:23:28.034-05:00"If the government dictates that you have a c..."If the government dictates that you have a certain kind of care, whether Mercedes or Chevrolet,"<br /><br />The government doesn't dictate what kind of care I need to drive, or the the kind of health care I need. The fact is, while I don't necessarily need an expensive car, I may need at some point, expensive health care. The kind of car one drives can be related to ability to pay. That isn't the case with respect to health care.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-28339951616411440992013-09-16T07:56:56.833-05:002013-09-16T07:56:56.833-05:00"It's true that I don't need a Merced..."It's true that I don't need a Mercedes in the same way I need health care."<br /><br />That's not true. What is true is that you don't need a CAR in the same way that you [may someday] need health care. But the comparison here is about what KIND of health care you want to buy. If the government dictates that you have a certain kind of care, whether Mercedes or Chevrolet, you are denied the right to choose a used Beetle that much better suits your needs. And what is being dictated is not that you buy a car (or health CARE) but that you buy auto INSURANCE, and it's not the same thing at all. We're comparing heated leather seats with flu shots. jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-77143833444600727082013-09-15T19:49:14.413-05:002013-09-15T19:49:14.413-05:00Anyone who thinks that the plans on the exchange a...Anyone who thinks that the plans on the exchange are "deluxe" hasn't looked into them very closely. The bronze-level plans are far, far, far from "deluxe".Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-21994389829293984002013-09-15T08:35:10.296-05:002013-09-15T08:35:10.296-05:00"The problem is that you don't NEED a Mer..."The problem is that you don't NEED a Mercedes, and shouldn't have to pay for one."<br /><br />It's true that I don't need a Mercedes in the same way I need health care.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com