tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post1782448223689624477..comments2024-03-28T06:23:02.679-05:00Comments on Give2Attain: Gridlock: Hold Fast or CompromiseJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-66001435388904760312013-10-09T06:09:01.618-05:002013-10-09T06:09:01.618-05:00This is why there is such a furor now.
Note the n...This is why there is such a furor now.<br /><br />Note the nature of the furor. Republicans are claiming that this market based system has glitches. Well, they want a market based system with 50 state markets intended to interact with insurance companies in each state. It's an immensely complicated task and you bet there are going to be glitches.<br /><br />Republicans claim it is an interference with freedom. Well, that didn't bother them when they were proposing a mandate. And in any event, that issue was resolved by the Supreme Court. Republicans don't seem to dispute that the mandates is necessary to Obamacare, so that isn't a factor anymore.<br /><br />Republicans claim Obamacare is too expensive. But the fact is, health care has become way too expensive for reasons having nothing to do with Obamacare. And while claiming that Obamacare is too expensive, Republicans have opposed every proposal to make it cheaper. I think John suggested the problem the other day. Republicans are opposed to the denial of care. And you see this most vividly in their opposition to death panels. Well undenied care must be paid for somehow, and Obamcacare is one step in the direction of doing that. It doesn't finish the job, but that is because of the Republican features which make that more difficult and which would also present the same problems in any current Republican supported program.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-44050928291200816552013-10-09T05:52:48.770-05:002013-10-09T05:52:48.770-05:00Not one Republican voted for ACA in the Senate or ...Not one Republican voted for ACA in the Senate or House...<br /><br />They didn't have to. The deal was negotiated through proxies. Actually, the fact that no Republican voted for the bill is evidence that opposition was based on partissnship, not on the merits of the bill itself. <br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-25295385029132539242013-10-08T21:42:25.996-05:002013-10-08T21:42:25.996-05:00We should expect people to pay a reasonable portio...We should expect people to pay a reasonable portion of their incomes towards health insurance, and the government should assist those of low income with filling in the gaps.<br /><br />Why? Because unless we're going to start letting people bleed out on the corner, we're going to take responsibility for that care anyway. So we need a structure that requires people to chip in (after all, not purchasing insurance is in fact a choice -- a choice to put society on the hook should you really get in trouble) and contribute to society's costs. <br /><br />Is the ACA perfect? Of course not. But it's far better than the system as it exists today, and until Republicans have a better functioning plan, they should shut up and get out of the way. It's morally abhorrent the way they are railing against (and in some cases actively discouraging people from signing up for) expanded health insurance.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-19044888467895700662013-10-08T19:31:19.036-05:002013-10-08T19:31:19.036-05:00Personally I am thinking about stopping my charita...Personally I am thinking about stopping my charitable giving, since I am transferring so many dollars via the government wealth redistribution system.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-12543054927488347802013-10-08T19:27:58.526-05:002013-10-08T19:27:58.526-05:00Reform or Socialized???
Now who should pay those ...Reform or Socialized???<br /><br />Now who should pay those losses and what is your rationale?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-90114499256327160882013-10-08T16:46:31.174-05:002013-10-08T16:46:31.174-05:00Democrats bent over backwards to try and get Repub...Democrats bent over backwards to try and get Republicans on board. They literally waited and worked for months in hopes that the "Gang of Six" on the Senate Finance Committee could come to a bipartisan agreement.<br /><br />But when it became apparent that Republicans wanted no part of serious health care reform, they went it alone.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-81277696532865675682013-10-08T16:10:00.485-05:002013-10-08T16:10:00.485-05:00Hiram,
I checked again... Not one Republican vote...Hiram,<br />I checked again... Not one Republican voted for ACA in the Senate or House...<br /><br />The Democrats wrote the legislation as they needed to get all of the Democrat votes, the beliefs and concerns of the Republicans were apparently not addressed...<br /><br />This is why there is such a furor now... If you push through huge expensive social change with the barest of majorities, there will likely be push back...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-43912906446485913112013-10-08T15:44:34.002-05:002013-10-08T15:44:34.002-05:00Sometimes "efficient" markets mean that ...Sometimes "efficient" markets mean that some people don't get anything, as well, because it's not profitable to service them.<br /><br />Markets don't provide that everyone who wants something, gets that thing. Just because there is a market in diamonds doesn't mean everyone has a diamond. It's well understood that the existence of markets for health care doesn't mean everyone gets health care. Much of the policy wrangling is about nothing more than providing that those who can't afford to participate in the markets get health care anyway. Both Republicans and Democrat address this problem by the way, and the accepted solution is to tinker with the markets in various ways, through the use of subsidies. This is a very messy and expensive way of doing it, but Republicans wanted to retain a role for markets in the distribution of health care, and it's something Democrats went along with. <br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-64706934058855670832013-10-08T11:13:51.363-05:002013-10-08T11:13:51.363-05:00Sean,
You are absolutely correct. So who do you wa...Sean,<br />You are absolutely correct. So who do you want to pay for the loss on providing service in these cases?<br /><br />Rationale?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-70532525561894635702013-10-08T10:32:22.528-05:002013-10-08T10:32:22.528-05:00Sometimes "efficient" markets mean that ...Sometimes "efficient" markets mean that some people don't get anything, as well, because it's not profitable to service them.<br /><br />The way I use "efficient" when I talk about markets is as it relates to the ease in which suppliers and demanders meet. For example, an efficient market tends to narrow as opposed to widen the gap between the bid and the ask. This can reduce the cost of transaction, but it doesn't necessarily change the price. But it's also possible for markets to become less efficient, increasing transaction costs.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-83692578197036168792013-10-08T10:05:42.953-05:002013-10-08T10:05:42.953-05:00Sometimes "efficient" markets mean that ...Sometimes "efficient" markets mean that some people don't get anything, as well, because it's not profitable to service them.Seanhttp://brickcityblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-16138830074911977572013-10-08T09:01:47.665-05:002013-10-08T09:01:47.665-05:00Being "Entitled" to them does not mean t...Being "Entitled" to them does not mean they "Earned" them.<br /><br />Nope, it means they are entitled to them. Is your point that while you may have earned your check, you aren't entitled to it?<br /><br />I don't think we should vilify either the rich or the poor, owners or producers. I think we should do what's best for society.<br /><br />==HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-80384891998986876722013-10-08T08:51:40.851-05:002013-10-08T08:51:40.851-05:00Being "Entitled" to them does not mean t...Being "Entitled" to them does not mean they "Earned" them...<br /><br />If you "Earn" something, you should be paid back. (contribution = benefit)<br /><br />If you are given more than you earned. (contribution < benefit) One should be thankful to the people who pay the difference. Not villify them and demand more...<br /><br />Did you watch the video of the man being critical of the welfare moms? He may swear a lot, however he definitely understands my point.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-13709045862653854072013-10-08T08:50:27.864-05:002013-10-08T08:50:27.864-05:00it is axiomatic that competitive free markets DO m...it is axiomatic that competitive free markets DO make goods available, at lower cost,<br /><br />It occurred to me that I should supplement my response. Yes, sometimes markets make goods available at a lower cost, sometimes markets make goods available at higher prices. And every once in a while markets leave prices unchanged.<br /><br />--Hiram Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-54428847550528193472013-10-08T08:36:26.648-05:002013-10-08T08:36:26.648-05:00Even as a wild eyed liberal, I don't see why w...Even as a wild eyed liberal, I don't see why we should make policy choices that favor buyers over sellers. I don't see how or why markets do or should favor buyers over sellers.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-65944973169514089792013-10-08T07:59:50.040-05:002013-10-08T07:59:50.040-05:00it is axiomatic that competitive free markets DO m...it is axiomatic that competitive free markets DO make goods available, at lower cost,<br /><br />Then why doesn't the stock market always go down?<br /><br />Markets can make pricing more efficient, but they don't necessarily make things sold in them cheaper. The laws of supply and demand determine many prices, and all markets do is provide a place for suppliers and demanders to meet. The impact on costs can be that the existence of markets reduces the transaction costs, because it makes it easier therefore less expensive for suppliers and demanders to find each other.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-1589304409307047782013-10-08T06:42:18.096-05:002013-10-08T06:42:18.096-05:00As a side note, it is axiomatic that competitive f...As a side note, it is axiomatic that competitive free markets DO make goods available, at lower cost, to more people. To suggest that the Obamacare "exchanges," or even the stock market, are examples of that competitive free market is inaccurate.jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-63236006967084255312013-10-08T06:21:50.363-05:002013-10-08T06:21:50.363-05:00One only lies blatantly when they are out to manip...One only lies blatantly when they are out to manipulate another person. Telling people that they earned social security and medicare once the trust funds are gone is like saying "you can't handle the truth!!!"<br /><br />They are entitled to them. That's why they call them "entitlements".<br /><br />--Hiram Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-26050129067882018032013-10-08T06:09:55.860-05:002013-10-08T06:09:55.860-05:00So do I and every conservative I know.
I know, an...<br />So do I and every conservative I know.<br /><br />I know, and I truly believe that. That's why opposition to deniers of health care like death panels is so fierce, something I respect. The problem comes with the Republican solution adopted by Democrats, market based distribution of care. Markets have many fine qualities but one of them isn't universal distribution of what's on sale in them. Just because there is a car market doesn't mean everyone has a car. So a gap must be filled, and both Republicans and Democrats have solutions as to how this gap is filled. And the fact is under all proposals, filling that gap is an awkward and difficult process one that ends up creating thousands of pages of statutes, and tens of thousands of pages of regs.<br /><br />As a side note, I thought I should point something out. There is a notion abroad in the land that markets make things cheaper. They don't. Markets can make pricing more efficient but they don't make things less expensive. If the existence of marketplaces always made things cheaper, the Dow Jones Industrial Average would always go down.<br /><br />--HiramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-15518456966393226782013-10-07T22:32:36.741-05:002013-10-07T22:32:36.741-05:00"The issue of today is health care. I believe..."The issue of today is health care. I believe everyone should have decent health care. "<br /><br />So do I and every conservative I know. Now, how do you propose that everybody PAY FOR the health care they receive? I think everyone should have enough food, too. Do you think farmers should work all day, every day, and then give their produce away?jerrye92002https://www.blogger.com/profile/01858692298982859775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-38495312431537177372013-10-07T20:50:25.810-05:002013-10-07T20:50:25.810-05:00And Liberals would blatantly lie to them just as t...And Liberals would blatantly lie to them just as the Democrats do today?<br /><br />I got so excited, I forgot mention.<br /><br />I am a huge fan of showing people respect. To do this you need to be open and honest with them. You need to empathize with them and truly care about them.<br /><br />One only lies blatantly when they are out to manipulate another person. Telling people that they earned social security and medicare once the trust funds are gone is like saying "you can't handle the truth!!!"<br /><br />Now that would seem "superior and condescending" to me.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-32660671568579394812013-10-07T20:36:53.523-05:002013-10-07T20:36:53.523-05:00And Liberals would blatantly lie to them just as t...And Liberals would blatantly lie to them just as the Democrats do today?<br /><br />They say that the rich aren't paying their fair share, even though that minority is paying the majority of this country's bills. And instead of being thankful, they would incite people to hate them and demand even more.<br /><br />I wouldn't try to speak from the moral high ground here. It seems that the whole Liberal argument is about trying shame the successful into submission. I mean check out <a href="http://mnprogressiveproject.com/wedging-the-cracks-between-republican-groups/" rel="nofollow">Grace's latest attacks</a>...<br /><br />You really need to read Atlas Shrugged. There is a point when Hank Rearden finally gets it. He finally understands that he is allowing his mooching lazy family to use his own morality against him. This frees him to walk away from their attempts to shame, guilt and coerce him into giving them something for nothing.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-44020726454579795212013-10-07T19:17:56.737-05:002013-10-07T19:17:56.737-05:00In my church we talk about the dignity and worth o...In my church we talk about the dignity and worth of each person, whereas you seem to want to include a dose of shame about receiving any form of financial assistance.<br /><br />My son is receiving financial aid for college for his third straight year, which is needed because my $50,000 doesn't allow me to contribute much to his education. <br /><br />What makes SS security a great program is the benefits are paid in a way that allows each person the dignity of feeling they are entitled to what they receive.It seems like you would like to change the program to include a dose of humiliation if possible. What's wrong with asking those who can afford it to pay a bit more. You could go on feeling superior to everybody and you could even blog about it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09905073449150541750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-38861976923592839332013-10-07T17:41:59.418-05:002013-10-07T17:41:59.418-05:00So you would like to have me pay higher premiums i...So you would like to have me pay higher premiums into the Federal Insurance Contributions Act system, and not increase my benefits...<br /><br />This is why SS and Medicare should be dissolved, and the needy folks be put onto welfare and medicaid.<br /><br />At least then we would all know that it has turned into a wealth transfer instrument, instead of a forced savings and insurance plan.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8193628934721963907.post-73793362822445741432013-10-07T17:33:35.998-05:002013-10-07T17:33:35.998-05:00Some more incredible examples.
Angel Adams
Various...Some more incredible examples.<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0QBD6CXgdo" rel="nofollow">Angel Adams</a><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDEKmI7qKKQ" rel="nofollow">Various stories</a><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1EKmQ7qlyc" rel="nofollow">For adults only, Black man criticizing school reqt for welfare benefit</a><br /><br />Need or entitlement/free loading... That is the question...<br /><br />Now... "Who is going to pay for my kid's college education!!! Someone had better pay for those kids of mine!!!" I had a hard time even writing that, let alone believing it...Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14991027705809503541noreply@blogger.com