8 Education Stories

Here is an interesting piece and exchange I am having.

"Where's the objectivity? Hawkins' reformist views really show in her "8 biggest education stories" article.

• Educators 4excellence? whose views do they really represent?
• Things are better in New Orleans after Katrina?
• The union DID NOT organize parents to support new school board members in St. Paul.
• The accountability proponents and civil rights groups get good data via mandated tests? When many students don't even read through the test questions?" Sonja

"Status Quo.  Does this mean you are a proponent for the status quo? The one where the highest paid and supposedly most qualified Teachers in Mpls get to choose to avoid the schools with the most challenged families / students?

 

I have never figured out why Teachers are against tests, grading and consequences when they use these to determine how well a student is performing on a regular basis. :-)" G2A

 "You doubt that teachers who make the most money are better teachers? Why? Teachers are paid more for experience and schooling much like in other professions. Yet the idea persists that "young energetic" new teachers are often better. Would you prefer a doctor or lawyer who was experienced and educated or one who was young, fresh out of med school and eager to operate or freshly out of law school ready to represent you in court? You are devaluing what teachers do with that attitude.

 

As for avoiding the roughest schools, if you've been paying attention to the news lately some of these rough schools can be very difficult places to be. Teachers are often given little autonomy, must do extra paperwork of little value and are not supported in helping the students. What's the draw? Some teachers are even concerned for their safety in some schools. Would you want to work there? If such a school needs more experienced teachers, they need to offer incentives for them to be interested in adding the extra stress to their lives.

 

Finally, I will clear up for you the puzzle of why so many teachers are against your type of "accountability". Students are not widgets. So much of good teaching is very difficult to quantify. Teachers aren't against some sort of measure of effectiveness. They are against incorrect measures created by people with little to no education background being used to measure their teaching. That business model IS NOT ACCURATE. Would you like to have your work graded by an inaccurate measure and used to judge your effectiveness? What if your arguments against this inaccurate measure were dismissed as you not wanting any accountability? Unfortunately all of this wastes time, money and hurts students as well. Does that clear things up for you John?" Sonja

 

"My background is engineering, so yes I understand that education and experience are factors in being more capable and productive. However they do not ensure better performance / effectiveness. This is why the income level of engineers varies greatly even though they have similar degrees and experience.

 

I do not think that a 5 year energetic Teacher is better than a 25 year Teacher, however I think they can be at times. Whereas Tenure, Job Preference, Steps, Lanes, etc all give preference to older Teachers whether they deserve it or not. Sorry, for the good of the students compensation and job security should be based on the actual performance with the children / parents and the challenge level of the position, not degrees and years served.

 

I agree whole heartedly that the politically correct "keep them in the classroom" crowd is allowing our schools and classrooms to become too disruptive. Administrators and School Boards should ensure only children that want to learn and are capable of behaving are in the classrooms. It is unfair to the other students and the Teachers to do anything less.

 

The measures as prioritized by society are pretty simple in this case. Are the children in our schools able to read, write, do math and science when they graduate? Do you think the students deserve less? Do you think the tax payers deserve less?

 

And with MAP type testing it is possible to determine if students are making more or less yearly progress by similar classroom. (ie 6 classrooms in the same school)

 

Now I agree that questionable Parents are 80% of the achievement gap problem, however that problem is real hard to fix. Whereas the school system dysfunction 20% is much easier to address if the Unions and their supporters start putting the student's needs before the older Teacher's wants." G2A

Can students read, write, do. Can students read, write, do math and science? What do you think we work on every day? Most are learning as much as possible if they have any motivation. Their interest in showing how much depends upon what's in it for them. Testing that has no impact on their grades, ability to graduate or get into college just aren't worth the sustained effort to them. Many don't try. That invalidates their scores. At least try to judge their teachers or schools based on ACT scores. Those they are motivated to try on. Better yet go into the classrooms and observe to get a feel for what's going on. 

John you repeatedly make snarky comments about teachers and unions not putting the poor kids first. Did you have a mean teacher when you were a kid? Did he or she have tenure? Union protection? Do you now worry about legions of "bad teachers" getting paid for shoddy work? Untouchable due to seniority and tenure? Do you worry that the union knows they're bad but (kid haters that they are) cover up for those horrible teachers anyway? Breathe easy John. Taking away all of teacher's job protections and tenure to root out the few mediocre ones would throw the baby out with the bath water. Really excellent teachers already are leaving the profession all the time. They are driven out by the stress, the exhaustion, the frustration. There are so many people like you that have a lack of understanding of what is really going on but think that the solutions must be so simple. They think that good teaching is so simple to measure and thus reward or punish. They are also so quick to suspect, criticize and attack the people who are juggling the multiple roles that most teachers are forced to take on, especially in urban schools. Teacher, mother, father, social worker, babysitter, life-coach, supporter. Bad teachers hardly ever make it long enough to get tenure. If they do any competent principal can fire them. I've seen it happen numerous times. Stop obsessing about them. Try another track." Sonja

"Bad System. I don't see bad teachers, I see a bad system that the Union, some Teachers and their Politicians seek to protect. A system that is based on years, degrees, steps, lanes, tenure, employment contracts, etc instead of based on personal performance, accountability and the students.

 

This a system where an excellent Teacher in one classroom can make half of what a mediocre Teacher makes in the next classroom just because of their years / degrees.

 

This is a system that promotes the lowest paid employees working in the most challenging positions, and the highest paid employees taking the easiest positions.

 

This a system that does not have parents/students do class / teacher satisfaction surveys to ensure the best Teachers and the worst Teachers are trained/removed.

 

I actually have enjoyed working with 96% of the Teachers my daughters have had over the past 2 decades. The other 4% should probably be in a different profession." G2A