I think I'll give the character points to Romney on this one. The idea that Obama gave almost nothing before people were watching concerns me. My family makes less than he was in 2004 and we give significantly more. I am happy he has been giving more lately, I hope he finds the joy it brings, and I hope he keeps giving after the camera is shut off.
Here is the rationale for my viewpoint:
Mark 12:41-44 ESV
"And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”
Washington Post Fact Checker
Swampland Giving
Open Bible Tithes and Offering
Unfortunately Biden and Obama (pre-publicity) seem to support the belief that Liberals like to give to the needy, as long as it is someone elses's money. The rapid increase in giving when the visibility was increased raises character questions for me. I would have been more comfortable if he had not changed his percentage so extremely.
Thoughts?
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14 comments:
I think I am finding your posts and comments annoying once again.
In the 1-2 years where comparisons in generosity can be made Obama gave more $ and paid more taxes. We don't know how generous MItt was in any year other than 2010 as that information is secret.
Also, I wonder how The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints uses gifts to help the less fortunate as The Vast Majority Of Mitt Romney's Charitable Donations In The Past Two Years Have Gone To The Mormon Church
Lastly, I suspect it might be easier to be more generous the more wealthy one is. Supporting a family in Chicago and repaying student loans for Ivy league educations 10 years ago probably didn't leave the Obamas much disposable income. If I made $1 million I could give away half and live very comfortably. As it is I would rather give my kids what I can towards their college than give to charity.
Never thought of Mitt as a man of character. Too much of the flip flopper, too much driven by political convenience for that. Actually, his lack of character is one of his selling points. He very much signals people that he doesn't really believe what he has to say to keep Republicans in line. That's what being an etch a sketch man is all about.
--Hiram
I was only commenting on the charity aspect of his character, I don't pretend to know much more about him.
Not sure how the Mormons use their offerings, I would think they are used in many ways just like every other church. (ie operations, local outreach, overseas outreach, etc) And is providing people with faith also a benefit to the needy? Just as important as food at times? I don't know. For some folks I know it works wonders.
As for Romney's rate history, I think the Mormon church is pretty firm on it. I assume he's been doing it for a long time. However I could be wrong.
As for Obama's low rate while he was upper middle class... That was the point of the verse. Giving when you are rich and people are watching is easy. (little to lose & lot to gain) It seems true charity is measured somewhat more accurately when times are more challenging.
I don't pay too much attention to the personal stuff. Lots of rotten people give money to charity. Lots of good people don't or can't afford to. In any case, it's their business, not mine.
Mormons are supposed to tithe, and there is some speculation that one reason Mitt doesn't want to release a lot of financial records is that he hasn't been doing that. I actually don't believe that. I am sure Mitt believes contributes more than a tithe. But at his level, that's a complicated issue. The early church fathers, for some reason, didn't take exotic financial instruments into account when they established financial obligations for the faithful. Mitt's finances can legitimately be looked at in a variety of ways and a number of different conclusions could be reached about them. Mitt is a rich guy in the way someone like Ross Perot is rich. He doesn't keep his fabulous wealth in treasury bonds.
--Hiram
--Hiram
I think another (better) measure of character is truthfulness and in this area Obama is clearly the better man.
the fact checker (wapo)
politifact Mitt Romney
politifact Barack Obama
Lies, Damned Lies, and Mitt Romney's Ads
Politicians are slippery, and Obama is no exception. Mitt does in fact lie a lot but I think it's arguable at least that he does that simply because he is more inexperienced, and also he comes from a world where there was no penalty for being caught in a lie.
--Hiram
How much of this was the truth?
Seven Lies in 2 minutes
Stossel on Obama
And thoughts on these clips. The 5 broken promises is kind of funny.
5 Broken Promises
Cut Deficit in Half
I am thinking Hiram is right. They are both politicians and prone to exageration and promising what they can not deliver.
So is Obama lying or naive? Which would be worse in a President? Lying?
Interesting Bio on the writer of the US News Article that Laurie linked.
Wiki Schlesinger
I especially like this part. "a liberal blogger on the site's Thomas Jefferson Street blog and the Huffington Post"
This is a pretty fascinating summary:
FactCheck 2012 Early Edition
They both are definitely stretching everything they can...
There is a difference between a promise and a lie. And lying is difficult to prove because it has both an objective and a subjective component. The statement must be untrue, the objective component, and the statement must be known to be untrue by the one making it, something that's very difficult to know or prove. Romney says things that are pretty obviously lies, when off script. He will say, for example, in a debate that he is unfamiliar with a nominally independent super Pac's ad, and in the next moment recite it's claims in detail (Romney is a guy who likes to show off his mastery of detail.) He will say he doesn't know when his wife's horse will compete in the Olympics, a casual fact I learned listening to public radio, and one must have heard over the breakfast table about a million times. But I tend to dismiss those as minor fibs. The real and dangerous problem with the modern politician isn't that they lie, it's that they have become so incredibly good at being deceptive without technically lying.
--Hiram
again from the ycbs category-
countering hundreds of statements analyzed by major newspapers with youtube videos from TeaPartySanDiego, ConservativeHaven and one that opens with someone taking a gun out from a case that reads "Don't tread on me" -clearly any more comments on which candidate has been more truthful are a waste of time.
So I'll take this discussion in a new direction which is being open and forthcoming about their policies and the direction they will lead the country. While neither candidate is perfect, Obama wins in this character area as well.
The Massive Policy Gap and Origins of the Policy Gap
Laurie,
I read the scorecards it looked like they gave a slight lead to Obama, however they both seemed questionable. Just like I have been saying.
As for the video, I was letting Obama's words speak for themselves.
Hiram,
Excellent points.
Laurie,
I'll research the plans and post later. Though I have not been impressed with Obama's results during the first 4 years. Should I expect something different during the next 4?
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