From Jerry at the DeVos Post
"And you keep waltzing around the idea that the almighty State is the right person to decide who has children, how they are raised and what education they can get. Until you are ready to give people the freedom to make choices in all these things, even bad choices, you have no grounds on which to call them irresponsible.
Besides, you still have not said how government will control these "irresponsible parents," while you seem unwilling to take even minimum steps to improve the public schools that government already controls.
If you are correct, which I doubt, we could almost immediately solve 30% of the problem, and then try to figure out the other 70%. Myself, I think if you got the schools where they need to be, the other 70% would start to decline over time. That's the very promise of public schools, was it not?" JerryHere is two of my comments that preceded his.
"While disagreeing with Jerry, I decided to stop referring to all adults who make babies as Parents. Here is an interesting link regarding what it means to be a Real Actual Parent.
Not someone who just happened to have irresponsible sex and kept the resulting child.
And yes I do think society should ensure that kids are raised by Parents, not just people who had sex and kept the resulting child." G2A
"People are often happier when they get to choose. That does not mean their children will get smarter faster. In fact it may mean their children will get smarter more slowly.
I mean the Parent may choose a school because of a charismatic administrator, a curriculum that they agree with, they love the arts, they love religion, the teachers are so sweet or other. And yet none of these ensure the child will effectively learn what is important." G2A
Here is another of my comments from MP Morrison County. (the moderators won't let me reply to Dennis... so frustrating...)
"I have been arguing with my readers what the most basic Parental expectation should be.
These people made these babies and should be held responsible for raising them successfully. We should not be expecting our education system to be Teachers and "Parents" also.
- Child is prepared for kindergarten. (ie socially, behaviorally, physically, academically, etc)
- Child is fed, washed, rested and their homework is complete when they arrive at school each day.
- Child can stay in the same school for years at a time.
- Parent attends conferences and strives to learn how they can help.
Currently we do spend Trillions of dollars per year via government to "fix poverty". You correctly point out that the systems are wasteful and ineffective. I am happy to try something different.
As for what they will do with that basic knowledge, motivation, self confidence and skills... Only time will tell." G2A
The irony of course is that a Liberal like Dennis has similar views to Jerry...
"What do we do when the parents don't or fail at the responsibility clause? Oliver Twist 101? How are we going to hold them responsible, jail, take away WIC, food stamps, housing vouchers, throw them out in the street, deny them food? Many of these families move 2-3 times a year. Can we restrict their right to move? There seems to be a gigantic over "simple" of how the real world works." DennisMy thoughts:
- Jerry is a huge supporter of giving school vouchers (public money) to people who "make babies" in the name of fairness, civil rights, equality, etc. And yet he is against giving these financially challenged individuals free Long Acting Reversible Contraception which would enable them to choose when to make babies (or not)... Just like the well off men and women of America.
- In MN Baby Makers have the choice of status quo public schools, magnets, charters, home schooling, online learning, private schools, open enrollment and moving to a new district, and I support all of these. I am also for stopping seniority/ degrees based compensation / job security, and replacing it with performance / position difficulty based compensation and job security. Seems to me I support school choice/ school improvement.
- In my opinion, vouchers may help some of the middle income folks who live in poor districts that have a high percentage of at risk / unlucky children. The voucher will subsidize what they can afford to pay and they may be able to enroll their child in a Private school that has a much lower percentage of at risk / unlucky children. So yes some people will be helped. Just as magnets, privates, open enrollment, moving, etc enable others to leave their unlucky peers and community behind.
- Of course, that means that the density of unlucky and special needs kids left behind will increase, the number of good students and families will decrease and the status quo schools will become worse and more expensive. Just as when the lucky students and families fled N Mpls over the decades leaving behind all the unlucky students and families.
- As for stopping Baby Makers from making babies until they are truly ready to be Parents. My simplistic view is that having babies and raising children should be a privilege and not a right. Adults are not allowed to drive a car legally until they can afford insurance and pass 2 tests. Yet to be a Baby Maker all one has to do is have unprotected sex... No test required.
- And ironically it is those who are least prepared, self disciplined and responsible who are more likely to unintentionally make a baby... Now I think raising a child is far more difficult and important than driving a car.
- In summary, Jerry wants to give many people who have proven themselves irresponsible even more responsibility for spending our tax dollars.
- And I think Dennis wants the tax payers to keep spending more money to bear the consequences that should carried by the baby makers
- And neither wants to discuss how to promote reducing the number of unlucky kids born each year. I will leave you with this reminder...