A FB Friend posted this. 538 Democrats Are Wrong About Republicans. Republicans Are Wrong About Democrats. Surprise !!! It is worth a read. Thoughts?
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- I am married and we have 3 adult daughters and a dog. We live in Plymouth MN. My interests are learning, communicating, home improvement projects, motorcycling, boating, and other outside activities. Thank you for reading my blog and have a great day !!!
38 comments:
Let's see. Things I am wrong about.
Republicans favor lower taxes. Am I wrong?
At the very least, Democrats are comfortable with higher taxes particularly on people with higher incomes. Am I wrong.
Republicans are pro-life, mostly, and Democrats are pro choice mostly.
Republicans want you to be able to buy lousy health insurance. Any dispute about that?
Both Democrats and Republicans think Trump is a crook, but republicans don't care. Am I wrong about that?
--Hiram
How many Democrats are as estimated by Republicans
Description, actual, est, diff
Agnostics or atheists, 9%, 36%, +27
Black, 24%, 46%, +22%
LBG, 6%, 38%, +32%
Union members; 11%, 44%, +33
How many Republicans are as Estimated by DEMs
Description, actual, est, diff
65 or older, 21%, 44%, +23%
Evangelicals 34%, 44% +10%
Southerners 36%, 44%, +8%
Earning $250+K/yr 2%, 44%, +42%
The real results are much more interesting...
The GOP folks seem to think the DEMs are a bunch of Minority Gay Union Heathen people...
The DEMs seem to think the GOPs are a bunch of Very rich, old, southern bible bangers...
Of course that does seem to be what the tribal leaders keep preaching...
To quote Galeano, Football is the only religion without atheists.
--Hiram
The GOP folks seem to think the DEMs are a bunch of Minority Gay Union Heathen people...
It's nice to talk about what GOP seems to think. But the reason we have to do that is that Donald Trump is a liar, and it's hard to know what liars think because that isn't what liars tell us.
What do Democrats think?
Democrats think that the primary goal of the Republicans is to reduce taxes on their constituency particularly on their financial supporters. Democrats think Republicans want to pay for their tax cuts by reduction of services on either people who aren't Republicans or who are but are willing to vote for Republicans because of social issues. They also are willing to borrow money from abroad, people who they otherwise disparage.
--Hiram
"2% of GOP folk earn $250+K/yr"
Now we know that 98% of Republicans are not "Rich".
And that a large number of them are not even college educated.
Why do you think these people would support cutting taxes on the rich
and cutting welfare, medicaid, instituting work reqts, etc?
Remember that the 2% can not get anyone elected by themselves.
Why do you think these people would support cutting taxes on the rich
Raising taxes on the rich does poll well across the political spectrum. But it's not enough for an issue to poll well, it's got to be an issue that changes minds. And soaking the rich doesn't move voters. For me as a Democrat, the bright side of that issue is that cutting taxes doesn't move voters much either. Poor Erik Paulsen is his desperate effort to divert attention from his support for Trump, is trying to tell his constituents about his tax cuts. Doesn't seem to be having much impact because people know tax cuts aren't free, that in his case they are being paid for by higher health care costs and money he is borrowing from China, that may have to be paid back some day.
--Hiram
Hiram,
I am not sure you actually answered my question(s)...
Why do you think these people would support cutting taxes on the rich
and cutting welfare, medicaid, instituting work reqts, etc?
Sorry.
Why do you think these people would support cutting taxes on the rich
and cutting welfare, medicaid, instituting work reqts, etc?
You would have to ask them. The argument I am most familiar with is that saved tax money is put back in the economy where it generates more business, creates more jobs, generates more in taxes, that sort of thing. It's the boilerplate answer to the boilerplate question.
My own view of this is that it is an oversimplification of how the economy works. The level of economic activity generated by the spending of money doesn't have much to do with whether it goes into the public or private sector. Let's say we pay a teacher who goes out and buys stuff. Does the level of that economic activity depend on whether she works for a public or private school. Some expenditures are more wasteful than others in economic terms. Americans spend an obscenely wasteful amount of money on corporate management. Government wastes money in economic terms too. We spend a huge amount on the military which whatever it's advantages in providing security, is an economic rat hole. Oddly enough, it's Trump who intuitively grasps this by placing such a high priority on asking other countries to waste more on their military so we can waste less.
--Hiram
Rich people waste huge amount of money. A case in point is the tax cuts that fund stock buybacks. Now in theory, money freed up through tax cuts should go back into the economy generating further economic activity. But the fact is, especially in the recession there has been a lot of money sitting on the sidelines. Adding more through tax cuts is pushing on the string. But in fact what companies are doing with their tax windfalls isn't using the money to expand their business, they are buying back their stock. In theory this generates value, but if you try to to spend theoretical value at Target they won't sell you toothpaste for it. And of course, if there is an economic downturn this theoretical value literally disappears. When you most need it, you can be sure it won't be there.
--Hiram
Interesting answers. Thank you.
I think the answer to "Why do you think these people would support cutting taxes on the rich and cutting welfare, medicaid, instituting work reqts, etc?" is more philosophical.
They believe that money belongs to the individuals who learn, make good financial decisions, work, save, invest, etc to earn and grow it. And therefore government taxation and wealth reallocation should be minimized.
The above is a simple philosophy that can apply to a person no matter how much they earn or how wealthy they are.
Whereas DEMs seem to believe differently. I mean think of all the times you have said, America is wealthy so we should do... :-)
Once you pay it in taxes, the money doesn't belong to you. It's a correlation of the idea that say, once your employer gives you your paycheck the money doesn't belong to him anymore.
--Hirsm
The concept that money still belongs to you once you pay it to someone else it's that tenable. But I will say, you have an interest in what your taxes pay for in a way that you don't have an interest in what your credit card bill pays for.
I would find a philosophical argument against taxes a lot more compelling if it didn't reduce us to the stone age. Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society.
--Hiram
Yes, that.is why they support cutting taxes. They think they can use it more wisely than politicians.
And please remember that there is a strong correlation between the rise of welfare and the failing of the American family structure. Maybe there are some good things about the stone ages.
They think they can use it more wisely than politicians.
I don't think anyone can reasonably believe that.
--Hiram
I am sorry but I have much more faith in individual American citizens than the people who choose to run for public office. As do most folks who vote Republican...
To us voting Democratic is to say that "the politicians" know better what a citizen needs than the citizen does, or that citizens are incapable of making responsible decisions. Both are very demeaning when you think about it.
Let's use social security and medicare as an example, it is a case where citizens are mandated by government to pay 15.5% of their yearly compensation into. All because we do not trust citizens to make good choices. And/or we don't trust citizens to support charities that can help the older destitute folks get by.
As Jerry notes, most citizens and their families would be much wealthier if they had earned, saved and invested that 15.5% than letting the SS / Medicare offices manage it.
As I often note, I think the Democratic philosophy is that many healthy citizens are too stupid or dysfunctional to learn, work and care for themselves.
Therefore instead of having faith in these citizens and pushing them to learn, make better choices and improve their lives... They insist on collecting money from the successful folks so those folks can stay dysfunctional.
It is kind of win / win for the DEMs. They get to:
- feel superior
- feel they helped
- use other peoples money to do so
- create more dependent people and continue the cycle of dependency
I mean what would Liberals stand for if everyone was:
- educated
- independent
- financially stable
Republicans entrusted this nation, it's hopes and it's dreams to a financial and moral bankrupt, who believes his predecessor was born in Kenya, who they know in their heart is is in the pay of Russia. Asking us not to feel superior is asking too much. Believe me, Democrats would trade their raging sense of superiority for a president who is unfit for office any day of the week. Most Americans would, which is why they voted for someone else.
Look, if Republicans don't want to be condescended to, they really need to stop doing things that generate condescension. It really is up to them.
==Hiram
The DEM platform and candidate left folks little choice.
Worse yet the DEMs seem to be headed even further Left.
I can or wait to see what happens in Nov.
Please feel free to condescend to them at your party’s own peril.
That should have read...
“I can not wait”
I believe there were about 20 candidates running for president in the GOP and the voters chose Trump. Very few trump voters are open to someone campaigning on an inclusive America
What do you define as an "Inclusive America"?
inclusive America is a place that is welcoming to immigrants, gay people, supports programs that help ensure people have access to food, housing, and healthcare.
inclusive America supports affordable college, and black lives matter.
Your description of "inclusive" sounds a lot like a...
social democracy (ie welfare state) with weak borders
I guess I have to agree with you that very few Conservatives support that. That sounds much more like the Liberal proposal.
The old tax the successful people so that the government can give free stuff to the unsuccessful, low skill, low knowledge folks. While encouraging more low skill / low knowledge people to flee into our country.
Again... there are billions of those low skill / low knowledge people in the world...
How many do you want to bring in?
Is this what you envision?
Or maybe this...
Or maybe this
Please remember that I support immigration, however I believe we should add people who will help America thrive.
Norway maybe is a better example
A Princeton sociologist spent 8 years asking rural Americans why they’re so pissed off
Here are a few examples of moral decay... Not sure how to fix it, but I am thinking past Liberal policies contributed to our current problems. Worse yet it is the unlucky kids who suffer most because of it.
Parenting: Then and Now
Marriage: Then and Now
Dependency: Then and Now
The funny thing is that none of the examples have anything to do with race or immigrants. They have to do with irresponsible parent(s) and how our society and government programs tolerate or encourage them...
However instead of focusing on the things that conservative responsible parents really disapprove of.. Those silly people in your post focused on xenophobia... (ie intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries)
You keep wanting to make this about race when it really is about how new citizens transition to becoming responsible American citizens and parents.
What are your thoughts regarding the challenges Denmark and Sweden are facing?
And the strict policies Norway enforces to ensure immigrants will fit in and help the country?
These are the poster children Social Democracy countries and their struggles are sounding very familiar to ours.
Finally again...
Again... there are billions of those low skill / low knowledge people in the world...
How many do you want to bring in?
Worse yet the DEMs seem to be headed even further Left.
The biggest problem capitalism is that it's advocates have no idea how tenuous and how vulnerable it is. Capitalist Americans need to a better job in persuading all of us that their preferred system of economic organization is right for America. They need to stop selling their souls to elect a president who raises serious doubts about it.
--Hiram
Hiram,
Please remember the USA is a Mixed Economy and that allowing ever more low knowledge / low skill needy folks into the country is part of why our systems struggle. Just as the systems of Denmark, Sweden and Norway are struggling.
Please remember the USA is a Mixed Economy and that allowing ever more low knowledge / low skill needy folks into the country is part of why our systems struggle
I thought the economy was doing well. And of course, it terms of poor people coming to this country, it is obvious enough that they were the ones who have and continue to make America great. It is probably always true that the good things in life require a struggle, something immigrants know well.
--Hiram
Struggle is good. Are you becoming a Republican who will start supporting training and work requirements for our domestic unsuccessful people.
Denmark accepted about 21,000 refugees in 2015. Through the first 9 months of the current U.S. fiscal year, we have accepted 16,208, so we're on pace to accept about the same number of refugees as a country with 1/60 of our population. Comparing our situation to theirs in utter nonsense.
Apparently we allow ~400,000 illegal immigrants to cross our border each year, and we allow 11,000,000 to reside here full time. How does that fit into the calculation?
Also, a large portion of our 1+ million immigrants go to family reunification.. How does that fit in?
I am happy to compare numbers, but let's put them all on the table.
You can't even state the illegal immigration numbers in the proper context. (Net illegal immigration has been flat to slightly negative for a decade). How am I supposed to have that discussion with you?
And yet they keep coming in and staying for quite awhile until someone spends enough money and time to deport them. And right now it seems many liberals want to end the ICE department.
Here are some interesting numbers from a Conservative Source. Thoughts?
Do you think Denmark is up to ~1 of 5 being from another country?
I'll have to do some more research when I get a chance.
Most of the illegal outflow is people self-deporting.
"Thoughts?"
It's disingenuous to count U.S. born children as immigrants.
"Do you think Denmark is up to ~1 of 5 being from another country?"
No, but they take a much higher percentage of refugees than we do -- which means much higher levels of government support for that population.
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