A more friendly FB friend asked me.
And of course Giuliani's comments always make it interesting... If Trump was the candidate and boss... Where should the buck stop if funny business was happening within HIS CAMPAIGN...
John, what is your take on people inside the government trying to take down Trump?Here is my initial answer.
WSJ What Bruce Ohr told the FBI? RCP Version
I think that Trump is a master manipulator who works hard to stoke conspiracies that benefit him. And that in his True Believers he has a very willing audience.
Now it may be true that a couple of people disliked Trump and made their dislike known. However the FBI for better or worse is a huge bureaucracy full of rules, regulations, checks and balances... Which means that no small group of people can "conduct witch hunts"...
The unfortunate reality is that Trump and crew have been lying since day 1. That is why they have continually been changing their story. Remember when Trump first said that he had pretty much no contact with Russia.... Hard to believe that was only 2 years ago.
The good news is that our FBI was watching these secret meetings and investigating them. The big questions now:I would probably add that the honest man has nothing to fear in being investigated. However people who manipulate, lie and skirt the boundaries of legality do. I can't wait to see what the Mueller investigation found.Doesn't it make you a little curious that the loud brash Trump become a submissive suck up when he is with Putin? It is a bit odd.
- Were they just cocky business men thinking they were above the law?
- Were they stupid business men who did not even know working with our enemy was illegal?
- Was there something darker and more sinister?
And of course Giuliani's comments always make it interesting... If Trump was the candidate and boss... Where should the buck stop if funny business was happening within HIS CAMPAIGN...
40 comments:
I don't think there is anyone in the FBI who doesn't think Trump is a crook.
--Hiram
"I would probably add that the honest man has nothing to fear in being investigated."
That's BS and you know it. It is impossible to live these days without breaking at least some law, especially if your enemies want to just make stuff up. Need I remind you that "talking to Russians" is not a federal crime?
Hiram,
You are not doing anything to help Conservatives believe in the rule of law. :-)
I think that the reality is most of them have other things to think about...
I just reminded my daughter of the old person wisdom...
"People are like you and me... They are busy thinking about themselves and their personal issues... They are not busy thinking about you..."
I am pretty sure the vast majority of agents are busy working and living their lives. Unless they are assigned to a related case.
Jerry,
That is for the courts to decide after the investigation is complete.
as for...
"impossible to live these days without breaking at least some law"
well I guess I do drive 8 mph over the speed limit at times...
I have other things to think about too. But that doesn't mean I don't think Trump is a crook. That Trump is a crook is pretty obvious. It was part of his appeal to millions of Americans.
--Hiram
And if you file your taxes on anything but the short form 1040, and even then....
Hiram,
You sure look down on millions of your fellow Americans. :-(
Jerry,
Since we have an in home business and are partners in some farm land... There is always the chance that I made an error and may be subject to a fine if I am audited...
However we do our best to be "law abiding" so after 23 years of these somewhat complicated returns we have not been audited yet... Knock on wood...
You sure look down on millions of your fellow Americans. :-(
On the other hand, I take pride in the fact that most people voted for Hillary.
In my party, millions of people question Donald Trump's citizenship because they believe he was born in Kenya. The reason you never hear of them is that we don't take them seriously and we would never nominate one of them for president.
--Hiram
Please feel free to try and avoid taking ownership of your comment.
"That Trump is a crook is pretty obvious. It was part of his appeal to millions of Americans."
Do you truly believe that millions of Americans voted for Trump because they knew he was a crook?
Or were you just trying to be funny?
Yes. They just thought he would be their crook.
I means, do people really think Donald isn't a crook. Did they actually think he concealed his tax returns because of concerns about an audit? Did they really and truly think that all the money he received in the decades since banks stopped having anything to do with him was all on the up and up? And the funny thing is Donald doesn't deny this stuff. What he does say is that it can't be proven. And much of it can't be, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I don't know if I am really the one who has the low opinion of the intelligence of the American people, most of whom voted for Hillary. I don't think even Trump supporters buy his line. I don't think more than a handful of people in this country really believed he earned his money, I think the vast majority of us know, even if we don't want to admit it, that Donald got his money from his Dad, and lost much of it, and that his business career mostly consists of moving it around from pocket to pocket.
--Hiram
“Do you truly believe that millions of Americans voted for Trump because they knew he was a crook?”
Whether because of or in spite of, it’s all the same.
Moose
I think a lot about the German election results of the 1930s. Hitler got thirty percent of the vote or so, not the majority, but his was the largest single party in Germany. I think about those Hitler voters. Were they bad people? Were they committed to genocide? Were they advocating war with the allies? I really don't think so. I believe the vast majority of them were like the vast majority of us. Good and decent people who believed that the status quo was no longer working for them. They were an anti immigrant party, disturbed by the huge influx of foreigners into Germany following WW I. They didn't necessarily believe in Hitler himself. A lot of them knew he was dangerous and irresponsible, a demagogue. But they believed theirs was a government of laws and not men and they would be protected from any excesses Hitler might try to bring about. I don't see Trump as Hitler, but I see a lot of the attitudes that brought Hitler to power in voters today, indeed in any era. Does that mean I have a low opinion of voters? Maybe. But then faced with the crisis we are now in, how much does my opinion really count in the balance?
--Hiram
Hiram,
I guess I disagree, most of the Trump True Believers I have met do think he is an honest businessman who made good advantage of the US laws. I mean if Trump's taxes were full of illegalities he would have been arrested long ago. I mean we know he has been audited by the IRS multiple times.
Or do you think Obama's IRS was letting him break the law?
I guess I disagree, most of the Trump True Believers I have met do think he is an honest businessman who made good advantage of the US laws.
Hi
It's hard to imagine. Trump hasn't made much money. His wealth came from his father.
When I think of a businessman, at least in favorable terms, I think of someone who creates value. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs come immediately to mind. Trump's dad too. He built all those houses in Queens. But Donald hasn't had that kind of success. His major business effort, all those casinos in Atlantic City all went broke. Trump wasn't even able to make sin profitable. Since then, he mostly launders money for various mobs.
--Hiram
So now you are saying that Obama's Justice department turned a blind eye to Trump's money laundering? Really?
"...most of the Trump True Believers I have met do think he is an honest businessman who made good advantage of the US laws."
Stupid is as stupid does.
Moose
So now you are saying that Obama's Justice department turned a blind eye to Trump's money laundering?
Sure. Lots of money laundering goes undetected. That's why people who are prosecuted see themselves as being treated unfairly. Trump is a perfect example of that. His whining about unfair treatment is constant.
--Hiram
Hiram and Moose,
You are both saying that it OBVIOUS that Trump is a criminal.
You are saying that any normal person knows that.
And yet neither the IRS, the FBI and/or any other law enforcement agency during the 8 years of the Obama presidency arrested Trump. So are you saying that:
- they are all idiots or
-that they are all corrupt?
Or do you have some proof of your allegations that you would be willing to share with them?
falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus
Moose
You are both saying that it OBVIOUS that Trump is a criminal.
Sure. He didn't release his tax returns. There is only one plausible explanation for that.
--Hiram
And yet neither the IRS, the FBI and/or any other law enforcement agency during the 8 years of the Obama presidency arrested Trump. So are you saying that:
Would that have been appropriate? Are you suggesting that the president should direct the Justice Department to pursue certain individuals?
My guess is that the stuff and his entourage are being accused and convicted of are common practices. They just don't come to light very much. But Trump managed to get a special prosecutor appointed, and it's natural that a lot of shady business practices will come to light that no on would have ordinarily noticed. That's why Trump feels he is being so unfairly, why he thinks it's a point in his favor that other people who are similarly situated aren't being pursued by the authorities. Trump did the sort of thing that ordinarily people like him get away with but unfortunately the rules changed which he sees as unfair.
--Hiram
I have no firm opinion on whether or not Trump's finances are illegal, but the fact that the IRS didn't find anything is next to meaningless.
Since 2011, the department has had its enforcement personnel cut by one-third. Audits -- in raw number terms -- are at their lowest level in 15 years (and as a % are even lower). Audit rates for millionaires have fallen by more than half just since 2015 to the lowest rate since the IRS started tracking millionaires as a separate category.
And, besides that, the IRS does very little deep dives behind the numbers other than to check that you have documentation to back up what you filed.
Hiram,
We are not talking about hidden crimes that are hard to find... You said...
"That Trump is a crook is pretty obvious. It was part of his appeal to millions of Americans."
I am just asking you to put up or shut up... :-)
Sean,
We know that he has been audited.
And if he has all the legally required documentation, there really is no proof of this crime that Hiram is saying is obvious.
Now it will be interesting to see if anything comes from the NYT reporting and Trump Charity Fiasco.
One more point.
Other plausible explanation for not wanting to release one's tax returns to the public:
- Trump thinks they may be valuable to competitors and others.
- Trump thinks something in them may negatively impact his future dealings with banks, etc.
- Trump may be a person who wants to keep his tax information private.
-Trump knows they are legally private and confidential and need not disclose them.
-Trump knows that the enemy will find nothing illegal but will just make stuff up to say there is. Probably without actually looking.
-Trump knows it is a fishing expedition to create scandal where there is none, and to keep a non-issue alive to damage him.
-Trump knows it is a distraction and he's not taking the bait, while he cleans out the swamp. Looks like a great new opportunity coming here shortly, with "non-essential employees."
-Trump has a clear conscience, rightly or wrongly, and sees no reason for the Inquisition.
-Trump just enjoys watching "all the right people" howling outside the door. And he likes delighting his supporters by doing so.
You and the rest of the Republican mob don't care who gets hurt. Thankfully, you'll be relegated to the dustbin of history soon enough. Disgusting.
Moose
Your ability to ignore what was learned in the wealth transfer and charity investigations is simply amazing.
But keep thinking happy thoughts. :-)
Moose,
The 2 tribes have been going back and forth and morphing for centuries...
I think you are in denial if you think this war is going to end anytime soon...
But keep thinking happy thoughts. :-)
If they aren't discarded, our Republic is imperiled.
Moose
Republic >> Republicans. Your point?
Moose,
Both pure democratic socialism and pure capitalism have big flaws...
That is why we wisely stay somewhere in the middle.
Those are not opposite ends of a spectrum. Nice try, though.
Moose
Communism = great social system for small groups, terrible economic system for anything larger.
capitalism = fantastic economic system, some flaws as a social system
socialism = poor social system because it is a bad economic system.
regulated free market capitalism-- most successful country in the world. A republic, if we can keep it.
Democratic socialism-- the opposite of a free market capitalist republic.
Not at opposite ends, but pretty far apart on the spectrum. :-)
The Democratic socialist countries have Capitalist economic systems.
Try again.
Moose
All modern countries that I know of are mixed economies... Be they the USA or France...
The question is how much of the country's GDP do citizens get to control?
And how much does the government get to control?
Currently the USA is ~37% government to 63% citizen...
Whereas France is ~56% government to 44% citizen...
That is pretty substantial.
Why did you choose France?
Moose
MEANWHILE, this happened:
Roger Stone Indictment
The above document shows that Stone was in contact with both the Trump Campaign and Wikileaks about the hacked DNC e-mails. That's collusion, kids!
I hope this means the report is coming soon.
collusion = somebody Trump knew talked to somebody who we think but can't prove might have talked to the Russians and somehow something about OUR candidate that we didn't want revealed and that she criminally failed to secure, got exposed to the public. A real smoking gun, there. :-\
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