WAPO How Trump bobs and weaves to avoid the truth
I missed this weeks 60 Minutes, however it does not look like I missed much other than listening to Trump make stuff up. Thoughts?
I missed this weeks 60 Minutes, however it does not look like I missed much other than listening to Trump make stuff up. Thoughts?
28 comments:
I liked it when Donald said to Leslie, I am president and you are not. Leslie should have responded you are federal employee and I am not.
--Hiram
That would have been great!!!!
Hey... You work for me buddy !!! :-)
Just a reminder that the guy you voted for is running cover for another guy who had a journalist dismembered while he was still alive.
Any source for this?
"dismembered while he was still alive"
And technically Trump is trying to ensure those US jobs that are funded by Saudi contracts stay employed... It is a nasty business...
Defense Contractors Rattled
That is a lot of jobs...
"U.S. President Donald Trump said on Thursday he was wary of halting arms sales to Riyadh because of Khashoggi as it would just shift its weapons purchases to Russia and China.
Saudi Arabia, where Trump last year announced a $110 billion arms package, has been a centerpiece of his overhaul of weapons export policy in which he has gone further than any of his predecessors in acting as a weapons salesman. However, critics say the new approach gives too much weight to business interests versus human rights concerns.
The senior U.S. official declined to identify the companies that had contacted the administration over their Saudi arms deals. Defense contractors did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) and Raytheon Co (RTN.N) have been the most active U.S. defense companies with potential sales to Saudi Arabia since Trump announced the package as part of his “Buy American” agenda to create jobs at home."
NYT: Audio Contains Gruesome Details of Khashoggi Killing, Turkish Official Says is the least gruesome version. Google Khasoggi dismembered alive, and you can find other accounts, too.
"And technically Trump is trying to ensure those US jobs that are funded by Saudi contracts stay employed... It is a nasty business..."
Which G2A Principle does coddling murderers fall under again?
I will await some kind of investigation result before convicting...
The questions on my mind are:
- what was the motive?
- how did they get the audio?
- where did the order to execute come from?
Once we know that, hopefully we can negotiate a settlement that protects American jobs and punishes the guilty parties.
How do you want to deal with this terrible incident?
"How do you want to deal with this terrible incident?"
Well, for starters, maybe the President can stop acting as a PR mouthpiece for the Saudi regime. He shouldn't be repeating their implausible denials. How about that?
We can and should put the arms deal on hold until we get a full accounting. We should ask for an international investigation.
We should stop coddling the Saudis, who have a long history of questionable actions. Let's not forget 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, most of whom attended radical madrassas financed by the Saudi government. Today, the Saudis are engaged in a brutal military campaign in Yemen, where thousands of civilians have died. Their civil rights record is horrible. I could go on, but you get the idea.
Don't forget, the victim of this attack is legal permanent resident of the U.S.
So you would like to stop taking their oil and money because they run their country very differently than the way we run ours? Would you stop doing business with all the Unfree Countries?
And there has been an accusation against them of killing one of their citizens?
I am fine cancelling the weapons orders based on the Yemen mess, but the sad reality is that if we do not sell to them... Russia or China will... How again does "cutting them off" help anything?
This world is a very messy place...
We will see if the Turks give a copy of the recording to a US gov't organization for review.
"So you would like to stop taking their oil and money because they run their country very differently than the way we run ours?"
PLEASE RESPOND TO WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID, PLEASE.
"How again does "cutting them off" help anything?"
Are we just mercenaries willing to take anyone's buck, or do we stand for certain values?
Well this was a bit vague... "We should stop coddling the Saudis"
We American Consumers love to coddle the Chinese who on sheer volume are much worse...
I don't have the answers...
But sometimes maybe a terrible person can be one's friend, when everyone else in the region is worse. :-)
And weren't you against invading Iraq to remove a brutal dictator who killed Iraqi citizens by the ten thousands? Or crushing the Taliban who kept girls and women ignorant and subjugated?
Did you ever watch a movie called The Kingdom?
It was pretty interesting and enjoyable.
"And weren't you against invading Iraq to remove a brutal dictator who killed Iraqi citizens by the ten thousands?"
What does that have to do with anything? Expressing disapproval and refusing to sell weapons to people who do bad things doesn't mean that we're also obligated to invade and overthrow every dictator on the planet.
I am thinking you are mostly upset with Trump's response because it is Trump...
I wonder what you would be saying if it was Obama? Different or Same?
As for how the two things are related...
I am not sure but it seems that there is a continuum between: Stopping, Ignoring, Doing business with and Supporting people who do harm in their own country...
And there is the continuum of how that country's choices impact American interests...
In this case, we may disapprove of Saudi Leaderships behaviors and yet they are very supportive of US interests.
In Saddam's case, he was costing us a lot of money and fighting against US interests... And he was horrible to his people.
I think all of this is very complicated...
You blew my question... Do you think we should stop doing business with China because they kill, torture, re-educate millions of their citizens? Should all the folks who are against that behavior boycott China products?
"I wonder what you would be saying if it was Obama? Different or Same?"
I'm pretty sure Obama wouldn't be conspiring with the Saudis to rig up a cover story, but any cursory readings of my foreign policy opinions should lead you to know that I'm not a person who's been afraid to criticize Democrats in that arena.
"Do you think we should stop doing business with China because they kill, torture, re-educate millions of their citizens? "
PLEASE RESPOND TO WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID, PLEASE.
"In this case, we may disapprove of Saudi Leaderships behaviors and yet they are very supportive of US interests."
Are they? I think you're just restating conventional wisdom more than realistically reckoning with their actual behavior.
I have been reading what you are saying:
- "refusing to sell weapons"
- "stop coddling the Saudis"
- "Which G2A Principle does coddling murderers fall under again?"
You are obsessed that the US government should punish the "Saudi Arabia" immediately for a violent action that they may or may not have undertaken.
While you are happy to allow American citizens continue coddling worse offenders to save a few bucks.
It just reminds me of the Liberal irony that they Government should mandate higher wages and punish companies, while Liberal voters continues to buy a lot of their products from over seas.
"Behind the smiles, which dropped as soon as the photo op ended, the source said, Pompeo told the royal his future as King depends on his handling of Khashoggi's suspected murder and that he had to "own" what happened, even if he hadn't known.
The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity to describe diplomatic meetings, said
Pompeo also made it clear to the crown prince that the Saudis had to get their investigation done very quickly. The top US diplomat stressed that time is short and that the Saudis have to deal with the people involved sharply, the source said.
Pompeo went on to tell the prince "bluntly that if they don't, the US will have to deal with this," the source said, and "will take action because the world will demand it and that President Trump's hand will be forced by the global pressure."
The Trump administration is relying on Saudi Arabia for a slew of crucial foreign policy priorities, from funding for Syria's reconstruction and the fight against extremists there, to getting Saudi financial support for a Middle East peace plan.
Most crucially, the White House needs Saudi Arabia to keep international oil markets steady as they confront Iran and introduce new energy sanctions against countries that purchase Iranian oil starting November 4."
"You are obsessed that the US government should punish the "Saudi Arabia" immediately for a violent action that they may or may not have undertaken."
I guess I'm not sure why they should get the benefit of the doubt given that something happened 16 days ago at their consulate and they can't explain it.
"While you are happy to allow American citizens continue coddling worse offenders to save a few bucks."
PLEASE RESPOND TO WHAT I ACTUALLY SAID, PLEASE.
I have replied to what you actually said and then expanded the discussion by asking questions...
Do you think we should stop doing business with China because they kill, torture, re-educate millions of their citizens? Should all the folks who are against that behavior boycott China products?
But you seem hesitant to answer... Or expand the discussion...
More here...
G2A What to do about Saudi Arabia?
"I have replied to what you actually said"
No, you haven't. You've changed my argument. What I wrote was plain and limited. And as long as you persist in putting words in my mouth, I'm not engaging with your nonsense.
We should also keep in mind that the Trump Administration's actions (or lack thereof) need to be investigated as well. For instance, as a permanent U.S. resident, Khashoggi is covered by Intelligence Community Directive 191, which is more commonly referred to as the "duty to warn". Meaning that if the U.S. intelligence community is aware of a credible threat against a person's life from an international source, they have a duty to warn that person. At this point as well, any Trump Administration activities in orchestrating a Saudi cover-up or PR campaign around this event need to be investigated as well.
Sounds worth looking into.
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