I had high hopes for Audrey when I went to the RAS candidate forum, unfortunately she disappointed me by seeming to be a traditional Liberal. She seemed happy to focus on "fully funding" the Education system while requiring no accountability from them. I assume she would raise taxes to do that since it is unlikely she would want to cut the Human Services monster. Looks like Sarah will get my vote again.
Same old question... How do Liberals think we can grow grow govt spending faster than the GDP and CPI year after year? I will never understand. Somehow they need to become more effective / efficient, or they need to cut something.
Imagine your household bills increased 2 to 4% faster than your income for 10, 20, or more years... How would this work out?
Audrey Britton for House
Sarah Anderson for House
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Poor Sarah can't even get her act together enough to get her profile into the Star Tribune. Shouldn't we expect a basic level of competence from our public servants?
==Hiram
The things government spends money on grows at their own rate. Instead of focusing on these arbitrary and irrelevant metric, let's focus instead on what we actually spend money on. We can't, for example, cut health care spending without actually cutting spending on health care. And we have seen how actual attempts to do that have been rejected by the Republican Party. In the case of Saran Anderson, typical Republican that she is, she has no objection to spending money, her problem is with paying the bills. That's why she has no problem at all in campaigning on a surplus in November that she knows will disappear in January. But as with the Star Tribune voters guide, Sarah is the candidate of putting things off until tomorrow, and as with the voters guide, in the hope that tomorrow never comes.
--Hiram
"How do Liberals think we can grow grow govt spending faster than the GDP and CPI year after year?"
CPI is a metric, not a policy. It has nothing at all to do with growth, and it by no means even provides a measure or even an explanation as to why things get more or less expensive. It's intended to measure the value of the dollar. But sometimes things cost more because they are worth more.
--Hiram
That doesn't mean we couldn't incorporate the CPI into our policy decisions, both individually or on a national policy basis. You could tell your energy provider that the amount you pay for energy this year can exceed the amount you paid last year by the increase in the CPI. If you do, tell us all how that works out for you.
On a national basis, I guess we could make a policy decision to limit the increase in government spending to the increase in some arbitrarily chosen and crafted metric. There are lots of measures of inflation, but we could choose the CPI. But what would that mean in practice? That we tell doctors they can't raise the amount we spend on their services more than the rate of inflation? Despite the fact that they have more patients, and despite the fact that their costs might be rising faster than the level of inflation? As a liberal, I am a big fan of finding ways to limit at least the rate of increase in health care costs. That may not be the best way to do it, but if we had conservative support for that proposal, I know I would be willing to explore it further.
--Hiram
I am not incredibly pumped to vote for Sarah again, Audrey does seem more warm and friendly. Yet we can not continue to elect public officials when their goal is to increase funding without accountability measures in place.
It would be interesting to see how you spend your personal money. I wonder if you just tell the Contractor, I left my wallet on the counter, just take what you need to do the job right... I trust your judgement...
The water keeps rising, we are all going to die !!! Someone help us !!! (a joke from a previous post)
Yet we can not continue to elect public officials when their goal is to increase funding without accountability measures in place.
I was at a forum the other day, where one of the candidates said something to the effect that if we can't measure a problem, we can't solve it. I just don't think that's true. Just because something isn't quantifiable, doesn't mean it isn't an issue. And it's pretty clear to me that if we only recognize as problems, issues which generate numbers, lots of important problems, perhaps the most important problems will go unsolved.
You know, accountability standards aren't policy judgments. They aren't about what's good or bad, what we should or shouldn't do. What accounting does is provide us with a tool to compare things. What we are to make of those comparisons is an entirely separate issue, and it isn't an accounting issue.
--Hiram
Whenever I question the school board about the fact that there spending increases at 8% per year while their revenues increase at only 2% per year, I am told that "costs are increasing." It is as if costs were the independent variable, and revenue was the thing the Board controlled, which OUGHT to be exactly the opposite case. The State and the voters control what revenue schools receive, and it is the job of the Board to control costs and deliver the best education they can with the available money. Now, if they believe they can offer a BETTER education with additional money, then they need to say how much better, at what cost, and in what way the added benefit will be produced and measured. I've said it countless times. Just tell me how much benefit you will provide and what it costs, and I will probably support the levy. Of course, I never get a response.
J. Ewing
It is as if costs were the independent variable, and revenue was the thing the Board controlled, which OUGHT to be exactly the opposite case.
I am sure it would be nice if that were the case, that the school board could control costs, but they can't. That's what we mean by out of control costs. The school board can't control who comes into the district and what demands they might make on school resources. They can't control what the state does in terms of mandates and finance gimmicks. They don't control the immigration policy of the United States. They can't control the weather.
Like a lot of things, schools are going to get more expensive, particularly as we demand more from our schools.
--Hiram
Hiram,
A lot of talk about costs, how about results and accountability?
Along with giving the Contractor your wallet, do you also say "I'll be okay with whatever you choose "to do or not do" to the house. I was thinking you should paint, but if you think it needs something else or do poor quality work, that will be fine"...
how about results and accountability?
Minnesota schools are doing very well.
--Hiram
I guess you don't see that near record achievement gap as too big of a problem then....
hiram, the schools DO control costs, it's just that they a) do not want to tell anybody no, and b) are not willing to hold themselves accountable for results. It is easier to let quality suffer (compared to what it could be) than to become more effective with the available money. Were it otherwise, it would be that the more money spent, the better the schools were. As it is, however, the amount spent is actually a NEGATIVE indicator of educational achievement.
J. Ewing
"I guess you don't see that near record achievement gap as too big of a problem then."
I don't, actually. I think it's a statistical anomaly, with no real world consequences.
It's true, they don't want to tell people no. They are in the business of providing services, not denying them. Of saying yes.
--Hiram
Your funny... We'll pass that opinion on to the poor uneducated minorities.
Really??? "No real world consequences" Really???
MPR Gap Persists
Do we have students in our schools with achievement gaps? If so, how doe we respond to a child's achievement gap? What do the studies say?
Achievement gap numbers are a function of who is in the schools and of changing demographics in the schools, not of differing levels of achievement by the kids themselves.
I did take a look at that MPR article, and was kind of amazed at how self contradictory and downright murky it was. At some points, scores are flat, at others scores are rising, at still others, the scores are irrelevant because the standards have changed. What it does seem to acknowledge is that there has been improvement in scores and that the improvement has been slow. While I would like the improvement to be faster, I also know that fast improvement on test scores is generally a sign of cheating.
--Hiram
"Achievement gap numbers are a function of who is in the schools and of changing demographics in the schools, not of differing levels of achievement by the kids themselves."
To be difficult... I am pretty sure the middle income white kids are attaining a higher level of achievement than the poor minority kids. I think that is why they call it a gap.
So can this be true, "Minnesota schools are doing very well", if a large portion of the students have a hard time passing the basic skills tests?
Now I am not trying to blame them for all of it and I acknowledge that the success criteria is rising, however I think they need to take responsibility for how the system contributes to the problem. G2A Blame vs Contributions
"I am pretty sure the middle income white kids are attaining a higher level of achievement than the poor minority kids. I think that is why they call it a gap."
I don't know that the semantics of what we choose to call things, has much relevance to what happens in our schools. I just don't think we have kids running around with achievement gaps, and for better or worse, it's kids we teach, not statistical artifacts, which as it happens, are often the result of demographic changes and anomalies.
"So can this be true, "Minnesota schools are doing very well", if a large portion of the students have a hard time passing the basic skills tests?"
Sure. The quality of schools isn't necessarily related to the fact that some kids have a hard time in them.
--Hiram
Check out pag 23 for "relevance"
State of Mn Educ
You have to ask why there is a statistical achievement gap? Do teachers in Alabama and Florida receive better training for teaching minority kids? Is there a secret here the author of the piece knows and isn't sharing with us?
In general, achievement gaps are the result of an increasing portion of minority students in our schools, rather then the result of lower test scores among minorities. What we see, in general, is that test scores among minorities are increasing, but because their numbers are also increasing, their lower test scores bring down the overall results. How this general understanding applies to Minnesota, I don't really know. It's not an issue that gets addressed much, and I don't think the linked study, does either.
The achievement gap is a statistical artifact, the unreal combination of a set of very real problems. What is true, is that different kids present different challenges, and that these challenges probably need to be responded to in different ways. Minority test scores are rising, so we must be doing something right. But they aren't rising as much as we would like so we aren't doing enough right. And we have to understand that not all problems all kids have come from the schools, that are schools are much more the solution than the problem.
--Hiram
Let me put it another way. If the achievement gap were a problem in our schools, we would take specific steps to address it, wouldn't we? How does one go about reducing the achievement gap? Make all those charts look prettier? Go back to what we used to do. Find ways to block lower scoring minority kids from enrolling in schools. Flunk them out earlier, fail to provide remedial and special education services. Tighten immigration restrictions so that the numbers of non English speaking kids in our schools are reduced. Don't teach white kids as well. If the Achievement Gap is truly the problem, all those steps would have an impact on reducing it. But it isn't, so they aren't.
--Hiram
As noted in the B&C link above, their are many causes for the achievement gap. And no we are not taking many of the steps that would address it for many reasons.
Picking on the Public schools first, since this post was about accountability. The unions insist that:
- Teachers be rewarded on education level and yrs served instead of effectiveness and results.
- On tenure and that huge amount of proof be collected before a inadequate Teacher be dismissed.
- Teachers be given higher than market compensation.
- Only traditionally licensed Teachers are allowed in the classroom.
- Competitive systems be squashed if possible.
Now all of these are really good for the Teacher, however they are really bad for fixing the achievement gap. They all drive up the cost of our education system and lower its effectiveness.
- Limits size and make up of work force, by preventing alternative licensure.
- Higher Teacher costs reduces number of Teachers that can afforded.
- Ineffective Teachers over paid and still in the classroom
- Excellent Teachers under paid, or they just choose to not enter the dysfunctional system.
As for another big systemic failure, all those Conservative folks that refuse to invest in years 0 - 5... When the child is learning some of their most important life long beliefs and habits.
Which of those factors listed have to do with achievement gaps generally, or Minnesota's achievement gap in particular? If we are to believe the achievement gap is widening why do these factors affect the teaching of one group of students over another?
Which of these measures would provide would help one teacher teach one student of any race better?
--Hiram
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