First the news topic, MSN Federal Judge Orders Family Reunification The judge also set time limits which is good.
The second speaks to the Liberal elites hypocrisy:
It pretty much aligns with what I have experienced in the behaviors of suburban and rural Liberals. They are very supportive of the poor, the immigrants, the minorities, etc until they start to move into their neighborhoods or schools. I mean SO MANY middle and upper class Liberal households have moved to get their kids into that Whiter more affluent district.
Thoughts?
The second speaks to the Liberal elites hypocrisy:
"Sessions spoke Tuesday to a crowd at the conservative-leaning conservative Criminal Justice Legal Foundation, and accused critics of his “zero tolerance” immigration policy of hypocrisy.Along those lines, here is an interesting study I heard about one day on NPR. WAPO Researchers put two Spanish-speakers on a train and changed commuters’ views of immigration
“These same people live in gated communities, many of them, and are featured at events where you have to have an ID to even come in to hear em speak. They like a little security around themselves,” he said.
“If you try to scale the fence they’d be even too happy to have you arrested and separated from your children.”
The last line brought laughs and a few cheers from the audience in Los Angeles, which was greeted with protests by those who see the separation of children from their undocumented parents as inhumane." MSN Session Jokes about Child Separation
It pretty much aligns with what I have experienced in the behaviors of suburban and rural Liberals. They are very supportive of the poor, the immigrants, the minorities, etc until they start to move into their neighborhoods or schools. I mean SO MANY middle and upper class Liberal households have moved to get their kids into that Whiter more affluent district.
Thoughts?
35 comments:
It's funny that he thinks he can speak to what Liberals would think and do.
But that's something we deal with on a regular basis from the owner of this blog, so it must be part of the Republican condition.
What's not funny is separating children from parents, and he thinks it's a joke.
Moose
What is interesting that Jefferson Beauregard Sessions used the same sort of argument today as Southerners used during the civil rights days about desegregation.
Moose,
It was actually the social scientists who studied the impact of moving immigrants into "supposedly immigrant friendly communities"...
And as for Successful Liberals living in gated communities with security and moving their kids out of diverse schools. That is not a big secret is it?
Now I agree that their are a lot of Liberals who walk their talk. Can you agree that their are also a lot of Liberals who value immigration and diversity as long as it does not impact them or their family in a negative way?
And I am not sure the joke was about "separating kids" as much as about the "liberal hypocrites" who support the poor, minorities and immigrants while hiding in gated communities and having people arrested if they try to violate those walls.
Look, we don't separate children from parents in this country just because a parent has committed the rough equivalent of J walking. That we have a president who disagrees with this, is the deepest shame of my civic life. It really is no wonder that Republicans are struggling so hard to evade the moral crisis their party's leader into which our nation is being plunged.
--Hiram
"Can you agree that their are also a lot of Liberals who value immigration and diversity as long as it does not impact them or their family in a negative way?"
No. I don't know any Liberals like that.
Moose
Hiram,
I am happy you are not in charge of immigrations and customs... I personally think that violating the US border is more serious than "J Walking".
Moose,
Maybe you need to spend more time visiting with Liberals in the Burbs and Rural parts of MN. I mean what do you think "White Flight" is all about? And is not just the Conservatives flying away.
I am happy you are not in charge of immigrations and customs.
So am I. There is a reason why Trump is working so hard to thrust this decision on us. It's because it's a difficult, one where there aren't many good choice. It's exactly the kind of policy choice Republicans flee from in panic. It's the kind of choice Erik Paulsen spends his entire political controversy hiding from.
Republicans control all branches of government. They have the power to impose heavy criminal penalties on people who are seeking a better life. Thankfully they have enough decency not to do that, but sadly not quite enough decency to resist trying to blame Democrats for it.
--Hiram
Are you saying you support Trump's recommendation that the Senate no longer require 60 votes to pass laws?
You don't know what a Liberal is or thinks.
Moose
I would get rid of the senate altogether. It's only function is to prevent Congress from passing a law against slavery. Aside that, it has served a destructive role in American history and on all of our lives.
The Brits have a different choice. Instead being able to legislate substantively, perhaps the senate's powers should be reduced to an ability to delay the passage of laws for three days.
--Hiram
Moose,
I do not know what each Liberal person thinks, however I think I understand how a significant number of them think.
My belief is that many of them think with their heart / emotions, which is not a bad thing. Unfortunately it does make one susceptible to changing opinions quickly as their feelings change.
So a Liberal living at the end of a commuter line can be very concerned about immigration. I mean who would not want to save them... However when subjected to non-English speakers on your commute, one may find it annoying and threatening. So their support for immigrants starts to waver.
As the study showed.
Or one can be very concerned for at risk migrant and minority kids until they start disrupting your child's school or classroom. Then very quickly you want to move or enroll your kids in a different school.
Or one can be very pro-American Worker until that high American Content car causes you some inconvenience / money. Then you start buying high Foreign Content cars. (ie screw the American workers)
Are you capable of thinking in anything beyond caricatures and stereotypes?
So a Liberal living at the end of a commuter line can be very concerned about immigration.
so are liberals who like their morning mcmuffin.
--Hiram
Are you capable of seeing people as very complex and having a wide degree of variation?
As I noted elsewhere, I am certain that there are Liberals who walk their talk... Just as there are Conservatives who walk their talk... Then there is the rest of humanity that is wildly inconsistent and often self serving...
Here is a quote that Kris posted on FB.
"Any effort to characterize the expectations of such an amorphous abstraction as “society” or “people” must constitute the height of presumption. While human beings are continually being collectivized into various groupings in order to assist in the generalization of human behavior, it is well not to confuse the abstraction with reality, but to remember that “society” consists of many separate individuals with unique tastes, values, motivations, experiences, and goals." ~Butler Shaffer
My responses were:
"And yet most people tend to flock towards Tribes who will help fulfill their personal goals. And in our 2 party system that makes things very interesting as discussed in this previous post on my blog.
"Food for thought. MW Society Definition"
"Are you capable of seeing people as very complex and having a wide degree of variation?"
I am, which is why I'm constantly befuddled by your insistence on classifying and putting people into little boxes with labels on them, so you can pontificate with some sort of authority about what "liberals" believe -- so much so that you put words in our mouths and speak for us!
And do you then speak for what all Liberals believe?
Since you believe that my interpretation of what some of them think is incorrect? Please note that I try to write "some portion", "some Liberals", etc.
I have taken the time to read the 2016 DEM platform which should somewhat be a statement of what most Liberals believe. Or isn't it?
The reality is that my interpretation of Liberal positions may not apply to you personally. However it may apply to another sub-set of Liberals.
And the immigrant social science experiment results and white flight numbers were not my opinion. They are simply an inconvenient truth.
Are you capable of seeing people as very complex and having a wide degree of variation?
Of course I am. That's what Democrats do.
==Hiram
Sorry, I just don't see it based on the statements from the "Democratic Tribe."
They seem to use the same broad brush as the "Republican Tribe". :-)
"And do you then speak for what all Liberals believe?"
No, but let's just say I'm a lot closer to the subject than you are.
"And the immigrant social science experiment results and white flight numbers were not my opinion. They are simply an inconvenient truth."
Certainly it's true that not all liberals, like any set of humans, perfectly live up to their ideals all of the time. Heck, I don't. But it's most assuredly true that most liberals don't live in gated communities. And if -- as you love to claim -- liberals are the party of urban areas only, then we're not exactly fleeing diversity in the same way that conservatives have.
Sean,
We both talk to, exchange comments with, read articles from, listen to speeches from, read proposed policies /laws, read platforms from various Liberals... Now I agree that I do not attend Liberal political meetings...
But my point is that the biggest difference between us is the perspective from which we listen to and view all of these interactions. You listen as an entrenched and supporting tribe member of the discussion, I am an unengaged observer.
Now I am not sure which vantage point is going to give one a more thorough and accurate interpretation of the situation?
Please remember that I truly believe that almost everyone in our country wants the best for the people in our country. Both the liberals and conservatives. Unfortunately they have very different ideas of how to proceed, and they are human / fallible.
"I am an unengaged observer."
Ha!
"Now I am not sure which vantage point is going to give one a more thorough and accurate interpretation of the situation?"
You're not some detached observer. You have your own biases. One of the key problems I have with you is you state what you claim are liberal positions in your own biased language. So stop with this crap that you're above it all and everyone else is tribal. You're every bit as tribal as everyone else.
I agree that some white liberals do buck the trend and stay in the poorer parts of the urban communities. Unfortunately I think most of them live in South Mpls type areas and send there kids to charters, magnets or private schools.
My cousin is one of those, he has a beautiful home near the Minnehaha creek. And his daughter attends an immersion school. I kind of consider that "white flight" without leaving home. :-)
The reason urban areas do vote strong DEM is because they have a high percentage of minorities, LGBT members, etc.
Sean,
Which tribe am I part of?
- Pro LGBT rights
- Pro strong border enforcement
- Pro first term right to choose abortion
- Anti deficit (ie higher taxes, lower spending)
- Pro kids (unions and parents come second)
- Pro free birth control and thorough sex education
- Pro legal immigration
- Somewhat support clean energy
Personally I am feeling pretty alone in my tribe... :-)
"Which tribe am I part of?"
The tribe you always vote for.
I may agree with you if I didn't spend as much time criticizing them as I do the other. :-)
Are you ever going to be critical of that Left Tribe?
"I may agree with you if I didn't spend as much time criticizing them as I do the other."
If you were as down the middle as you claim to be, your voting record wouldn't be one-sided. You wound yourself up in a pretzel to vote for Donald Trump, a guy who stands against all the principles and virtues that you claim to pattern your life around -- that's the essence of tribalism right there.
"Are you ever going to be critical of that Left Tribe?"
You obviously haven't been paying attention.
Sorry... Hillary lost me when she started supporting government gifted higher education, healthcare, more regulations, public employee unions, etc. Like many now days I voted for what I deemed the lesser of 2 evils.
I read your every comment and every source. If you have been critical of the Left Tribe it must have been very rarely and very gently.
Maybe you broke ranks with the tribe a little bit with your healthcare proposal.
What else in their Platform do you disagree with?
For your reference
Hillary's top 10 Promises
And
Hillary's Complete Issues List
All of the stuff you posted is not-terribly-specific boilerplate, mushy language that is hard to disagree with conceptually. But let me give you a few general points:
* I don't support a national $15 minimum wage.
* I would spend far more on infrastructure than most Democrats propose.
* I favor a much simpler individual and corporate tax code, removing most credits and deductions, broadening the base, and lowering rates. I could also, depending on the specifics, support a VAT.
* Democratic budgets can sometimes be somewhat cavalier about increasing taxes (Governor Dayton, for instance, fell into this trap occasionally), I'm more reluctant about that.
* Democrats, by and large, are lousy tacticians who are not very good at getting elected and using their power effectively if elected.
Some of your claimed positions here seem questionable based on your previous posts, like:
"- Pro LGBT rights"
Huh? You've routinely questioned the Obergefell decision. You supported the Colorado cake baker. You've suggested that any notion of LGBT status as a protected class should wait until there's a proven scientific link that shows it's a birth trait.
I'm not sure many LGBT folks would claim you as an ally.
Good to hear that you disagree with the Left tribe sometimes.
Do you support more than what Hillary supported? "Clinton would increase federal infrastructure funding by $275 billion over a five-year period."
And actually I am fine protecting LGBT rights in most cases, except when they run into other people's religious rights. Then the tie goes to the religious group for now due to the 1st amendment and lack of scientific data.
"Do you support more than what Hillary supported? "
Yes.
"And actually I am fine protecting LGBT rights in most cases, except when they run into other people's religious rights. Then the tie goes to the religious group for now due to the 1st amendment and lack of scientific data."
Again, I'm not sure that most LGBT folks would see that as being an ally. But you be you!
Thank you for your answer and permission... :-)
I can be no one else. :-)
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