MinnPost Legislative tax plans: Equitable, inspirational or destructive?
MPR 8 big issues still on the table as Legislature hits home stretch
CP Climate Change Statement
Lake Bde Maka Ska / Calhoun Fight
Apparently the House and Senate have simply agreed to ignore each other and hope things work out some how... :-( Why do we pay these people again?
MPR 8 big issues still on the table as Legislature hits home stretch
CP Climate Change Statement
Lake Bde Maka Ska / Calhoun Fight
Apparently the House and Senate have simply agreed to ignore each other and hope things work out some how... :-( Why do we pay these people again?
41 comments:
Wow. Tell me again WHO are the ignoramuses on "Climate Change"? Would it be those who parrot the Big Lie, perpetrated by lying scientists, greedy politicians, and hot-breathing media? It certainly cannot be those who have the math, science and logic that proves it is all a big hoax, nor those who are just naturally skeptical of such a radical and unproven idea.
Whatever... :-) Thanks for lightening my day...
OK, bury your head in the sand. Willful ignorance is still ignorance. No offense.
Right back at you buddy... :-)
Let me try this another way. Please point me to credible scientific evidence that human CO2 WILL, at some future date, create a climate catastrophe. Not some bold assertion, not some fudged data or irrelevancy like a tornado here or there, but real, measured, global temperatures.
Jerry,
There is absolutely no point. The Deniers are losing this argument slowly but surely. And the bulk of the deniers will die off before too long.
Just like LGBT rights, the time for low carbon is coming. :-)
Please feel free to scream into the wind !!!
Climate Etc by Judith Curry
G2A Climate
Even amongst the old folks, you are in the minority. :-)
"Think global warming will pose a serious threat in your lifetime?
18 to 34: 51%
35 to 54: 47%
55 and older: 29%
Think global warming is caused by human activities
18 to 34: 72%
35 to 54: 62%
55 and older: 55%"
Just as I thought. No scientific evidence whatsoever. The Cardiff Giant lives! Jews are everything wrong with this world. Bigfoot still roams the Earth. The moon landing was a hoax. People might believe in manmade climate change, but don't think it matters much. dead last
We are a representative republic and not a democracy because "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." So long as we continue to do nothing and the promised catastrophe never arrives, eventually people will realize that they have been duped, flim-flammed, bamboozled and had their eye teeth stolen on this issue. But true believers like you won't believe it even when you see it.
Perhaps I have been harsh. Try this one: The OFFICIAL global temperature record says that temperatures over the last 40 years have risen at an average rate of 1.1 degrees per century. The Paris targets have already been more than met, and we didn't do anything! Why should we?
A 4 year old summary of a survey that is no longer accessible... Really?
Where did you find this OFFICIAL record?
Do you mean this one that has been accelerating for the last 45 years?
And please remember that 1 deg C is 1.8 deg F.
NASA Update
Well, we all know that the GISS dataset is known to be inaccurate because of well-documented siting problems that make the current temperatures appear warmer than they really are. We also know that in the process of "adjusting" the raw data, the past becomes systematically cooler and the present systematically warmer. I would much prefer to use the satellite datasets.
BUT, even with all that "fudging," the GISS data chart shows that total warming over the last 140 years amounts to about 1 degree C. or 0.7 degrees per century. Even assuming the recent "accelerated" warming shown by the chart is real and continues indefinitely, you are looking at 0.8 degrees C over 60 years, or 1.33 degrees per century. That is UNDER the LOWER target of the Paris Agreement!! Where is the catastrophe? What is the problem?
I think you are choosing to misunderstand the concept of "acceleration"...
NASA Climate Change Effects
NCA Vol 1
NCA Vol 2
And I think you are misunderstanding both the mathematical concept of "trend" and the scientific authority of "actual data." The truth is "a trend will continue until it changes." All of the other datasets seem to agree that the trend is for continued DEceleration of the trend, since 2000, back towards ~1.5 degrees/century. Or maybe 1.33, as the GISS dataset would suggest.
Also for consideration: Supposedly, the world heated up A bit more than 1 degree (unevenly) in the last century. Are we really going to go all hair-on-fire if it heats up another 1-1.5 degrees in this century?
Are you okay with another million or so species going extinct?
Moose
Since there is absolutely nothing I can do to prevent it (to the extent that the cause is global warming), I will have to be.
The premise that humans aren't causing mass extinction is ludicrous.
Moose
Moose,
What is your rationale for being concerned about animals and insects evolving or dying out?
Ludicrous only if you assume that the way humans are doing it is through producing CO2, which makes plants grow and feeds more herbivores, making more food for carnivorous wildlife. And only IF, by chance, humans are producing most of the CO2, which they are not, and that total CO2 is the principal driver of global temperatures, which it is not.
And be careful with terms like "ludicrous." It sounds like something an uninformed fanatic would say.
The articles on literally EVERY news service yesterday.
Moose
Yes, we've gone over your complete lack of understanding before, jerry. No need for you to prove it again.
Moose
You mean those news services that said we would all be extinct by 2000, due to "manmade global warming"?
"Moose,
What is your rationale for being concerned about animals and insects evolving or dying out?"
I meant to say:
The articles on literally EVERY news service yesterday...and an understanding of the interconnectedness of Life on this planet.
Moose
OK, feel free to refute me all you like. But then you are also refuting NASA, NOAA, the IPCC and the official temperature record. Oh, look, it was predicted to rain today, so it must be raining, is that it?
Your combination of arrogance and ignorance is astounding. Par for the course for a Trump supporter.
Moose
Ignorance? Have you even looked at the actual [official] data that I am quoting? Is there any scientifically credible evidence for your outrageous assertions, or are we simply to believe your statements on the basis of your belief alone?
Greater scientific minds than mine or yours show you to be incorrect in your understanding.
Moose
Those "greater scientific mines" have taken and displayed the actual scientific data to make it simple for everybody to understand IF THEY LOOK. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Are you afraid your simplistic viewpoint might be challenged by viewing the real data?
Why would I agree that a hack like you has come to the "correct" conclusion when the world's scientists disagree with it?
Moose
Moose,
You are correct it is pointless discussing this with Jerry. The NASA and NOAA links I provided simply do not match his misguided views.
I will try to study the interconnections between those million critters a little closer... But I think the scientists are making some big guesses here.
It is not a guess. There are endangered wild dog species in Africa which will likely die off when the elephants are gone. Not because they eat elephants, but because they rely on the openness that the elephants' huge appetite for plant matter creates in their environment.
The loss of a plant can mean the loss of an insect that other animals rely on for food.
We've had this conversation before.
The interconnectedness of Life is obvious to anyone whose eyes and mind are wide open.
Moose
Of course it is a guess...
With a million species we have no idea which will adapt.
Which will move North.
I do agree that many creatures may have to migrate...
"I do agree that many creatures may have to migrate..."
Certainly, some will be able to adapt. Most are reliant on an ecosystem...and changes to ecosystems which allow the adaptation and evolution of species typically occur over millions of years, not dozens. Many species will not be lucky.
Moose
"Why would I agree that a hack like you has come to the "correct" conclusion when the world's scientists disagree with it?"-- Moose
Ignoring the increasingly-tiresome insults, Can you prove to me that the "world's scientists" are looking at different data than what they publish for the whole world? Is it more likely that they are reporting true data that does NOT support their statements, or that their public statements are NOT supported by their own data? Those are your choices.
John, I was quoting the same sources you did. How does reading their published data lead to an erroneous conclusion?
Jerry,
Since you consistently come up with different answers than the experts...
You are obviously afflicted with confirmation bias that is leading you astray...
Besides the simple fact that you stick to your tired talking point that humans can not tip the balance.
"And only IF, by chance, humans are producing most of the CO2, which they are not, and that total CO2 is the principal driver of global temperatures, which it is not." Jerry
Or your deliberately misunderstanding the idea of accelerating temperature increases.
"And I think you are misunderstanding both the mathematical concept of "trend" and the scientific authority of "actual data." The truth is "a trend will continue until it changes." Jerry
Ignore the FACT that human CO2 is a tiny fraction of total, a tinier fraction of greenhouse gasses, and that temperatures have proven through history relatively unrelated to total CO2. True, but you deny them. Feel free. What you cannot deny is that the GISS temperature dataset YOU rely on, GISS, clearly shows, just as I have said:
"... total warming over the last 140 years amounts to about 1 degree C. or 0.7 degrees per century. Even assuming the recent "accelerated" warming [since 1960] shown by the chart is real and continues indefinitely, you are looking at 0.8 degrees C over 60 years, or 1.33 degrees per century. That is UNDER the LOWER target of the Paris Agreement!!" NOW, do you wish to deny your own preferred data?
I'll do a new post later so I can add graphs and tables...
I wish I could do that. But again, just using the link you posted to the graph of GISS temperature data, the inescapable conclusion is that catastrophic global warming is NOT happening.
As always, send me an guest post proposal at give2get@live.com and I will put it up.
You probably want to drop me a comment just before you do... Or make the subject very clear... I run all my advertisement type mail through that account.
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