This is classic and hilarious...
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July
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- Riots: Good for Both Sides
- COVID Progression Diagram
- COVID Symptoms to Death
- Here Come the Masks
- Rest In Peace
- Trump flails in interview with Wallace
- How Masks Protect Others
- People Dying = Change Reporting?
- Fun with COVID Numbers :-(
- School Funding Flaws
- How to Lose More Votes 101
- Disapproval Sky Rockets
- Trumps Swampy Swamp
- Who to Trust: CDC or Trump?
- Mary Trump Says
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About Me
- John
- I am married and we have 3 adult daughters and a dog. We live in Plymouth MN. My interests are learning, communicating, home improvement projects, motorcycling, boating, and other outside activities. Thank you for reading my blog and have a great day !!!
63 comments:
The best masks, the N95, stop 95% of particles over 2 microns. The virus is 1/2 micron. Cloth masks are not N95.
They are not perfect, however they are much better than nothing...
Unless you enjoy peeing on other people's legs... :-)
Something so simple everyone can do to help protect the elderly and infirm, and yet people resist.
Maybe charity is dead in America.
How MUCH better than nothing are they? (Not very, since they offer about the same protection as fishnet stockings do to liquid intrusions). And are they sufficiently beneficial to outweigh the downsides of maintaining a wet, germ-ridden environment on your face that starves you of oxygen?
"...starves you of oxygen?"
FALSE
Moose
Well you can continue to keep peeing on the legs of your old friends then.
Most of us rarely are in a situation where we are not "socially distance".
Therefore we rarely need to wear one.
Moose,
Jerry is old... Maybe he needs more oxygen than the rest of us.
New Info Regarding Masks
Mask Effectiveness by Type
Mask Myths 1
Masks QNA
Mask Myths 2
Ooh, a whole string of "sources." I just saw the last one, (oh, and now the one before) and it says pretty much what I've been saying. You can cough or sneeze into your sleeve or a kerchief and get 90% of the benefit to others as the mask provides. That plus not breathing on other people at close range, things we would normally do anyway. The mask is just a sign of fear, or a matter of virtue-signalling, as far as I'm concerned. Reasonable precautions, yes, and masks for health care workers, dentists, folks like that. For the rest of us, "better than nothing" is a small measurement.
Do as you wish, hopefully you don't share your germs with elderly or infirm.
I would like to do as I wish, including being very careful around the "elderly and infirm." Unfortunately there are an increasing number of mandates out there, as well as "mask-shaming," that make it difficult to do what simply makes sense. I carry a mask in the car all the time, just in case the situation warrants one. I haven't found that situation yet. And I don't shop at places that require one. And by the way, I've also been tested and unlikely to "share germs" of the CV variety with anybody.
Just remember that any past test is just that... A past test.
Since people can transmit the disease while having no symptoms, it is safer for others if we assume we have it and wear masks when appropriate or mandated.
This whole resistance to mask is definitely silly, but that is what makes us America.
And why hundreds of thousands of Americans will die. Oh well.
I have a feeling you will soon have fewer and fewer places to shop. :-)
Yes, it is a past test, but since I have worn my mask as a religious talisman, I cannot possibly have become infected since. :-^
Hopefully there are enough people like me to make those places that mandate masks feel the economic pressure.
"hundreds of thousands of Americans will die"? So far a bit over 1 hundred thousand have died, and that number may be inflated. Remember that the Minnesota lockdown was instituted to hold down the deaths to 50,000, and so far we have had only 1500? All that pain, when the estimate that justified it was off by 3300 percent? Oh, and 80% of those deaths were in congregate care facilities we could have protected by targeted steps, but instead we threw a 1/2 million people out of work, killed countless businesses, and panicked a vast swath of the population into interrupting our entire lives. All to prevent a number of deaths roughly equivalent to a bad flu season, and we HAVE a vaccine for the flu.
not a cartoon
I'm always amused by people who use Dr. Fauci's opinion on masks from MONTHS ago, in an ever-changing pandemic situation, as some sort of evidence to prove their position on masks...as if Dr. Fauci, a SCIENTIST, would hold on to outdated scientific information. Science is a method; new information replaces old.
Moose
Very good, Moose. So when the hospital beds and ICU usage stayed far under capacity, and deaths came in at a tiny fraction compared to predictions, most of them in a tiny, easily protected fragment of the population, we continue for months after the peak as if the original estimates were still valid? And Democrats refuse to limit the Governor's powers to continue this disastrous lockdown indefinitely?
Jerry,
As is often the case, your sources are very suspect. If you get your information from these folks, no wonder you are so incorrect.
What were you saying about hospital capacity.
Or number of cases and need for extra support?
Or death rates starting to climb again
Of course, if we had GOP Governors we could still be experiencing high double digit deaths per day instead of single digit deaths per day...
It does amaze me that you claim to be pro-life, and yet fight against just wearing a mask to save lives.
Or 3 digit deaths per day.
Why the guidance regarding masks changed and why they are critical to getting our country fully open
And how stupid and spineless our current President is...
"If we all wore face coverings for the next four, six, eight, 12 weeks across the nation, this virus transmission would stop," said Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
But President Donald Trump said he won't consider a federal face mask mandate, citing outdated statements made several months ago.
"Dr. Fauci said don't wear a mask. Our surgeon general, terrific guy, said don't wear a mask. Everybody was saying don't wear a mask," Trump told Fox News' Chris Wallace in an interview that aired Sunday.
"All of a sudden, everybody's got to wear a mask. And as you know, masks cause problems too. With that being said, I'm a believer in masks. I think masks are good."
It's true that back in February and March, health officials such as Dr. Anthony Fauci and US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams advised the general public not to wear face masks.
But for the past several months, Fauci, Adams, the CDC and the World Health Organization have all agreed that wearing face masks is critical in stopping the spread of the coronavirus.
That's because doctors and scientists now know much more about how easily the virus spreads."
So, your opinion to the contrary, deaths are down 90%, WITHOUT a mask mandate, so all of a sudden we need a mask mandate to slow the disease?
"...how easily the virus spreads..." Report today about a number (20, IIRC) of cruise ship passengers who tested positive for the virus and were quarantined in their cabin for 14 days, WITH their traveling companion. The cabin-mate tested negative at the end of the two weeks, in every case.
"And how stupid and spineless our current President is..."
=That= is the conclusion you want to reach, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the current health problem. I'll say it again: all concern for this virus will suddenly end Nov. 4.
Sources please.
New York etal broke the cycle with shut downs and masks...
Red states failed to do these simple thing and their death numbers are climbing aggressively.
And this is helping more conservative voters understand the truth
One of those documents Trump is likely hiding for political reasons
NY "broke the cycle"??? So why are roughly half of total deaths coming out of NY and environs? Again, MN was supposed to shut down to avoid 50,000 deaths, and we've had about 1600. At what point do we recognize a massive and ongoing overreaction from government?
"At what point do we recognize a massive and ongoing overreaction from government?"
You are so predictable. WAAAAAAAAY back in March, it was foretold that if we did it right, the government would be accused of overreacting.
Utterly predictable.
Moose
Jerry,
Yes NY had to work hard to get where they are.
I have disproved your 50,000 claims before. No reason to do so again.
Sweden had about twice as many COVID deaths per 100,000 people... The actions of Gov Walz saved ~1,400 Minnesotan lives, It may not be worth it to you, however they probably disagree.
Disproved? Where? I don't have the cite, but it was in Walz's own words, and the product of a very dubious model out of the U of M. The prediction was 70,000 deaths without the shutdown, 50,000 with.
Saved 1400 lives? At what cost? At least $1.5B in State revenue alone. And even if I accept your number (pulled from thin air as it is), about 1200 of those could have been saved WITHOUT a months-long shutdown.
And Moose, if the government did it WRONG, they would be accused of overreacting, so guess what. Explain to me how there was ANY sense of proportion here. We are still in the range of a really bad flu season, which never in the past has created such a reaction. Therefore the current shutdown is an overreaction. QED
Jerry,
For your convenience, please tell me where to look for your claim.
The prediction was 70,000 deaths without the shutdown, 50,000 with.
Now I thought you disagreed with a monetizing lives???
$1.4 billion / 1,400 = $1,000,000 per live saved... Good or bad?
140,000+ dead in 5 mths with all the shutdowns, masks, etc.
How many dead was an acceptable number for you?
FL, TX, AZ and the White House are learning the hard way.
And even our Denier in Chief is kind of learning
"We are still in the range of a really bad flu season"
That's odd. I'm pretty sure cities don't regularly fill up their entire supply of ICU beds every flu season.
Moose
Or... The need to put loved ones in refrigerated semi trailers...
Moose, and they didn't. We've got enough misinformation consternation without yours.
John, are you sure you are looking at the correct numbers? The southern states, best guess is because of air conditioning, are seeing increases in CASES, but the death rate per case continues to fall, AFAIK.
And your $1Million per death is only the state budget hit-- let's say 8% of the total, or $18 billion across the state. No insurance company I know pays out $12M to save a life. Besides, "acceptable deaths" is not even the right question. The right question is "avoidable deaths not avoided." And on that score, Walz had a dramatic overreaction compared to the reality.
predictions
Now you are finally ready to talk about the Economy vs Lives Trade Off. I was doing that in March and you thought it was improper...
Now did you miss the big... This is our first swing at an estimate? Then within 2 weeks they had improved the numbers
State officials urged extreme caution in interpreting these figures, which are based on a number of assumptions, such as the amount of face-to-face time by Minnesotans that could spread the virus. Researchers also used the global average for the infection rate of the coronavirus, but it might not spread as quickly in Minnesota as in states or cities with more population density. Researchers added that the numbers weren't created to predict death tolls, but rather to assess how much change could be expected under different social policies and restrictions.
"We get nervous when we focus on the number," said Shalini Kulasingam, one of the U researchers. "It's an estimate based on the data we currently have in hand.
"Osterholm said data modeling results can vary dramatically but still don't change the looming impact of COVID-19 or the need for people to take it seriously right now.
"This is going to be a very serious public health challenge that's going to stretch our health care system to the limit. That I have no doubt about," he said. "And whether it's 5,000, 20,000 or 50,000 deaths, realizing every one of those is a real person, not just a number, that's an important point — but either way you're going to stress the health system immensely."
These folks disagree with you...
Are you thinking that air conditioners are creating and dispersing the virus? :-)
Trump finally gets it.
"President Trump said Tuesday that the novel coronavirus outbreak in the United States would "get worse before it gets better" amid surges in cases in parts of the country.
"It will probably, unfortunately, get worse before it gets better," Trump, reading from prepared remarks, told reporters at a White House briefing Tuesday evening.
Trump went on to implore Americans to wear masks, physically distance and wash their hands, and urged young Americans to avoid bars.
"We're asking everybody that when you are not able to socially distance, wear a mask," Trump said. "Whether you like the mask or not, they have an impact. They'll have an effect, and we need everything we can get."
Bars create tight quarters for prolonged periods-- it's part of their charm. And in southern states they are air-conditioned. Scientific studies have proven that the cold air circulation spreads the virus.
OK, so the "experts" refined their estimates and warned they should not be taken as reliable. But the politicians took them as reliable on their face and imposed draconian measures based on that careless basis. I can understand a two-week shutdown, since that is what seemed prudent at the time based on VERY limited knowledge, but shortly thereafter, when it became obvious there was an overreaction, why did it continue, causing great economic, physical and mental harm?
For the same reason Texas and other states are locking things down again...
To save lives...
It is interesting that apparently even Trump is smarter or less stubborn than you...
Headline: Bill de Blasio's 'crucial' $52 million coronavirus hospital treated 79 patients.
But you left out some (all) details. Here is probably the most salient detail, yet more evidence that our healthcare system is a mess.
"But the biggest barrier was simple: Hospitals did not send many patients to Billie Jean King.
The city did not allow ambulances to take 911 calls to Billie Jean King because health officials said they did not trust the facility to triage patients. The site had its own ambulances, but they could not pick up transfers because, according to some workers at the site, hospitals had exclusive agreements with ambulance companies. So doctors had to wait for transfers. Few came.
In interviews, doctors at overwhelmed private hospitals said they were told they could not transfer to Billie Jean King because it was only for patients from public hospitals.
Several doctors at public hospitals said they believed their bosses did not want to transfer because the hospitals in the public system each had their own budgets, and they did not receive revenue from patients they sent away."
Moose
Site reporting on Jerry's latest distraction from topic :-)
Moose,
I think he is learning from Trump...
When in a losing position... Point somewhere else...
Distraction? This hospital was an overreaction. Mask mandates are an overreaction. Nowhere have we seen a government response proportional to the risk except for Trump's early travel ban dispatch of emergency supplies and floating hospitals, and two-week shutdown recommendation. Nationwide, daily deaths are down 90%, so NOW we want to ramp up the mask mandates? There is only one reason for this, so that when this disease naturally runs its course, the politicians can claim credit.
Yes... Distraction...
Even you Leader has figured it out.
"We're asking everybody that when you are not able to socially distance, wear a mask," Trump said. "Whether you like the mask or not, they have an impact. They'll have an effect, and we need everything we can get."
If you do not like masks you had better be ready to stay home.
How ironic. Now Trump will get the credit when this disease has run its course and sanity returns. The "impact" is largely psychological.
The World Health Organization has written an interim guidance on June 5: “At present, there is no direct evidence (from studies on COVID-19 and in healthy people in the community) on the effectiveness of universal masking of healthy people in the community to prevent infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID-19.”
Do you mean this document where they also said...
2) Advice to decision makers on the use of masks for the
general public
Many countries have recommended the use of fabric
masks/face coverings for the general public. At the present
time, the widespread use of masks by healthy people in the
community setting is not yet supported by high quality or
direct scientific evidence and there are potential benefits and
harms to consider (see below).
However, taking into account the available studies evaluating
pre- and asymptomatic transmission, a growing compendium
of observational evidence on the use of masks by the general
public in several countries, individual values and preferences,
as well as the difficulty of physical distancing in many
contexts, WHO has updated its guidance to advise that to
prevent COVID-19 transmission effectively in areas of
community transmission, governments should encourage the
general public to wear masks in specific situations and
settings as part of a comprehensive approach to suppress
SARS-CoV-2 transmission (Table 2).
WHO advises decision makers to apply a risk-based approach
focusing on the following criteria when considering or
encouraging the use of masks for the general public:
1. Purpose of mask use: if the intention is preventing the
infected wearer transmitting the virus to others (that is,
source control) and/or to offer protection to the healthy
wearer against infection (that is, prevention).
Not sure that is the document, but it clearly argues that the normal cloth masks, in particular, are only about 3% effective, and also that only under certain circumstances should it be considered, certainly not mandated for everybody. Sometimes you take the most absurd positions. Where is it where they want to mandate masks inside private homes?
One fellow had a long string of questions like:
Why is it, that if my 3 buddies and I drive to the golf course together, we're fine, but if we go out on the course and play [contrary to the mandate], we all die from the virus?
As always... Sources to go with your opinion...
And I have moved on to the latest good news
By the way, our golf league has been going for ~10 weeks , not sure what you are talking about.
Well, I suppose if you were all wearing masks... :-/
The fellow was simply pointing out that, at least where he lived, the shutdown rules made absolutely no sense. Even here, Walmart can be open but the mom and pop shop cannot. We can have massive funerals for what's-his-name, but not for Grandma. We can have huge (and very Destructive)"protests," but not an outdoor church service.
And now that we are far beyond the peak of the epidemic, Fuhrer Walz wants to command near-useless masks on everybody? Whatever happened to the sensible legal doctrine of least restrictive approach?
'We can have huge (and very Destructive)"protests,"'
Which were shown to not have had an effect on the number of cases.
You certainly are a modern Republican, through and through.
Moose
Moose, you miss the point. If the huge protest (or funeral) didn't increase cases, then any of a large number of arbitrarily prohibited activities should not have been prohibited for fear of the disease.
"...then any of a large number of arbitrarily prohibited activities should not have been prohibited for fear of the disease."
That is not sound logic.
Moose
I think the word arbitrary is kind of out of place...
"based on or determined by individual preference or convenience rather than by necessity or the intrinsic nature of something"
I thought the shutdowns were pretty logical...
Places where people can not or will not socially distance...
And there are always exceptions to every rule... Like quelling protests and riots.
Point being the protests, and the subsequent funeral, were not even considered to be prohibited activities by the Governor. That isn't logical, that's "individual preference or convenience." And since we are now hearing the protests did not increase the number of infections, as they SHOULD have if they had been held in spite of the shutdown (as they were), then it makes no logical sense that similar activities should have been shut down by government decree.
It may seem harsh, but totally without cost-benefit considerations.
Of course the protests were prohibited for many reasons. And yet what was one to do?
As for the funeral, at least they had on a lot of masks...
Would you have had them say no to people who chose to protest?
Or inflame the protests by saying no to the funeral?
Maybe you "anti-maskers" should get out there and protest...
There were quite a spate of gatherings around that labelled themselves a "protest" to get around Walz's edict. People are generally law-abiding, so it doesn't make sense for a Governor to single-handedly decree something so clearly unfair, questionably effective, and overly broad. We still have many counties not reporting a single death from the virus.
Perhaps this question needs to be asked: should the government compel behavior that has only a marginal positive effect on others, when less restrictive and more voluntary measures will be equally effective?
Please elaborate...
"less restrictive and more voluntary measures will be equally effective?"
How is that working out for Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc?
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