Laurie and Hiram... Bill explains how the Left could moderate.
And he asks an important give from the right.
Bill Maher Proposes a compromise
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26 comments:
I'm not a Bill Maher fan. I would be fine with liberal / progressive Dems letting go of some of their far left views and policy preferences. I am firmly center left and most of the writers I read these days are former Republicans or the center right (as much as that exists anymore.)
The Bill Maher video seemed to me to be mostly a series of false equivalence. Only Trump and the maga right are destroying the country. Laurie
I also am luke warm on Bill Mahr. But in this case he spoke the truth about the craziness of the LEFT.
I would have preferred if he pointed out more of the Rights faults. But Congress pushing back against Trump on something would be a good start.
How is Trump / MAGA 'destroying" the country?
I don't resonate to the idea of the craziness of the left. We didn't nominate a game show host for president. We didn't renominate a guy caught on tape trying to steal votes. A Democrat who thinks Albania is at war with Cambodia could never rise far in out party. Really, to think some people had a problem with Biden.
My position on Congress and with respect to the shutdown is simple and clear. The Democrats should allow the government to reopen the moment the defunded appropriations are restored. Until that happens, until trust is restored in the good faith in our partners are on the other side, I don't see the point in negotiating. They haven't kept deals, and they won't keep deals.
As for Maher, I don't like his linguini on the wall approach. Long lists of complaints is a rhetorical tactic I rarely accept. But I am willing to listen to complaints. I don't think I have a monopoly on virtue. Let's start with his biggest or anyone's biggest issue really. What is the most important thing we do wrong? What is the most important area in which we fall short. Name them, and I will try to respond.==Hiram
Being a lazy person I asked chatgpt how Trump is destroying the country. This is what I got:
1. Undermining Democratic Norms
Election denial: Trump repeatedly claimed the 2020 election was stolen, despite courts and election officials (including Republicans) confirming it was secure. Critics argue this undermines public trust in democracy and has contributed to long-term damage to electoral institutions.
January 6, 2021: His rhetoric and actions leading up to the Capitol riot are widely seen by critics as incitement or at least negligence. Several of his allies have been convicted, and Trump himself faces federal and state charges related to trying to overturn the election.
2. Erosion of Rule of Law
Legal troubles: Trump has been indicted in multiple criminal cases involving obstruction, fraud, mishandling classified documents, and conspiracy to overturn an election.
Disregard for norms: He often challenged or ignored legal, ethical, and institutional boundaries, e.g., pressuring the DOJ, firing inspectors general, and publicly attacking judges and prosecutors.
3. Spreading Misinformation
Trump is known for spreading falsehoods on a massive scale—from COVID-19 misinformation to conspiracy theories like QAnon. Critics argue this has degraded public discourse and led to increased polarization and distrust in science, media, and government.
4. Authoritarian Rhetoric and Behavior
He has praised authoritarian leaders (Putin, Kim Jong-Un), threatened to jail political opponents, and expressed interest in expanding presidential power.
His 2024 campaign has featured increasingly extreme rhetoric, including talk of “retribution” and suggesting immigrants are “poisoning the blood” of the nation—language critics say is authoritarian and even fascistic.
5. Social Division and Extremism
Trump’s rhetoric has been seen as fueling white nationalism, anti-immigrant sentiment, and political violence.
Hate crimes and militia activity increased during his presidency, which some researchers link in part to his inflammatory language.
6. Foreign Policy and Alliances
He often antagonized U.S. allies and undermined NATO, while aligning himself with adversarial powers. Critics argue this weakened America’s global standing and emboldened authoritarian regimes.
His administration’s foreign policy was often transactional and erratic, leading to long-term uncertainty among allies.
7. Environmental and Regulatory Rollbacks
His administration rolled back over 100 environmental protections, including climate-related policies, which critics say put short-term profit over long-term planetary health.
He withdrew from the Paris Climate Agreement and promoted fossil fuels over renewables.
...From my perspective Trump will do much more damage to the govt agencies starting tomorrow with firing lots more people. I think free and fair elections are a thing of the past. I am not a fan of the military occupying cities or the ICE secret police. Do you really view Trump as a normal conservative president? Laurie
Another example of destroying the country:
For every day of his second term, Trump has refused to spend funds appropriated by Congress—a gross violation of the Constitution that justifies impeachment, conviction, and removal from office. Unless Trump and the GOP agree to end Trump’s lawless conduct, there is no point in passing a new budget. Trump will simply ignore the 2026 budget, just as he ignored the 2025 budget. Laurie
More destruction from Trump:
Trump has already laid off or forced the early retirement of 275,000 federal employees. Trump already imposed illegal tariffs, impounded funds, deployed the military in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, directed the DOJ to indict his personal enemies, and engaged in monumental corruption. Laurie
For me, I see this posting as raising the issue of what Democrats are doing wrong. How should we change? What compromises we should make? What is Bill Maher's biggest issue with us?==Hiram
It is misleading or maybe just wrong to think we can reduce the size of the federal government by laying off or firing employees. The fact is, despite being a third larger in population than we were in 1990, the federal government employs fewer people now than we did then. The reason why we have a huge deficit isn't because we are overpaying your mailman. We think of the federal government as large because we think of it in terms of what it spends, and the problem with cutting what it spends is that the federal government spends that money on us.==Hiram
I heard a report this morning to the effect that Trump thinks Obamacare is too expensive. Well, yes, of course, Obmacare is expensive because health care is expensive. Mr. Trump says we can do better than Obamacare. Of course we can. We have Obamacare not because it is the best solution, we have Obamacare because it was the solution that got passed. What frustrates me is that Trump is right, and boy do I hate saying that. Of course, Obamacare could be improved. It's a complex program with which we have a decade of experience. What is lacking is the will to improve it.==Hiram
Laurie, I dislike Trump and I agree that he is breaking a lot of things. However I still can not go so far as to say he is "destroying" the country.
My belief is that a LOT of people and countries got comfortable suckling at the teat of US tax payers. And the DEMs were happy encouraging this. And many in congress in general...
The bureaucracy, public employees and politicians just had no real reason to change, improve, etc. Trump for better or worse is an aggressive change agent with a chainsaw. Hopefully we grow back better and more effective.
Hiram, 3 of the big issues were:
- The DEM obsession with allowing male looking trans folks to compete against women. And their willingness to use tax dollars to transition trans folks.
- The DEM willingness to let almost anyone who shows up at our border to enter the US while their asylum case is heard.
- The DEMs support for Public Employees and their unions. More money, more benefits, more job security and little accountability.
I am prepared to give in on the girls sports issue. Biological boys should play on boys teams. Girls should be able to play on any team they want.
To some , I am in favor of stronger border controls. But they must recognize human dignity. They must take into account the safety of all concerned. Rights must respected on all sides.
Obviously I support the right to unionize. If emplyers are allowed to band together and negotiate, employees must have the same right. But I do recognize that public employees have a special role in our society, often doing essential jobs that we simply can't do without. I understand that some rules need to be applied to them that we need not apply to ordinary workers.Their special status cuts both ways.
---Hiram
Now what strikes me about this list is the absence of things that are really important to me, and maybe others. Health care isn't on the list. Health care issues affect so many decisions in our lives. So much of what we earn goes to health care. It affects how we live, how we make the most basic choices in our lives. It goes to central issues of human decency. Why isn't that on the list? Surely it is at least important as high school sports. What about national security issues? We are now retreating from a postwar system that has resulted in perhaps the longest European peace in human history. Arguably, we are returning to a system that did not prevent the two worst wars in human history. How does that compare with high school sports as an issue with high school sports? Is the possiblity that somewhere in Minnesota a boy might compete on a girls sports team rival the survival of the human race? Does it matter how good the girl is?--Hiram
Hiram, The question is not how the DEMs are going to get your vote... I assume they already have that... :-O
The question is how are they going to get the "Independent" vote?
Or maybe you enjoy having your rigid beliefs but being powerless to implement any of them?
As I understand it the topic is, changes and compromises Democrats have to make to bring in independent voters. Specific issues were raised and I responded to them, and am certainly open to further discussion. The high school sport is certainly willing give a huge amount of ground. Immigration, unlike high school sports, is an issue that matters. And the problem there is the evil thing. I am willing to be only so evil on this issue. I am in favor of stronger borders, but I am not willing to have anyone shot for crossing them. I am not willing to deport people to death camps in El Salvador. I am not willing to do things Nazis would do.But as part of a deal, I might be willing to accept fascist measures. For the public employees thing, in an employment context, I am a Republican. I believe government is a business. And obviously, people who work for businesses should be able to unionize if they want to. Do even republicans disagree. Given the essential work they do, I am totally open to reasonable rules that protect the public safety.It's an issue on which I reallly want to be reasonable. I hope the other wants that too.
I don't think I am that rigid. I am a relativist, and am often criticized for not believing in absolute truths. ==Hiram
Well it will be interesting to see if the DEMs find a path out of the wilderness.
dIt epends a lot on whether we can persuade voters this election should be about things besides girls' softball, or in the alternative, get out the votes of people who don't care about girls' softball. America is bitterly divided today. There are those who are passionate about softball, like Bill Maher who I am sure goes to every game he can, and the rest of us, who just don't care that much.--Hiram
In a country where girls softball is the number one issue, I just don't see there is much hope for us.--Hiram
Just one of the many...
The current shutdown is an interesting example. The DEMs shutdown the government to ensure that a small percentage of the population keep getting their health insurance subsidized.
I am wondering if the majority of citizens think that is a good trade off?
Even though I have wanted Dems to stand up to Trump, I am not sure this shutdown strategy is going to work. It's hard to guess how the shutdown will end. Will Trump and the GOP concede anything? I think they like the govt shutdown. Laurie
The idea that Democrats have been rigid on health care policy is, for me, hard to say. Obamacare is the result of a collection of compromises. I assure you, if Democrat had been rigid, if Democrats had not negotiated with many different interests to get it passed, Obamacare would be very different.==Hiram
Here is a basic rule of politics. Democrats like government. Republicans hate government. In this case, the issue that has been brought to the fore is health care. Trump promised he wouldn't cut Medicaid and Medicare. Republicans claim the cuts in Medicaid aren't significant. So why not restore them?--Hiram
The problem Trump has in this negotiation is that he has no cards to play. No one thinks he would keep any promises he made in any sort of agreement so it's hard to see the upside in negotiating with him. And for Trump himself, there is little to be gained in negotiating since he now understands he can take what he wants without interference from Congress or the courts. The result from this ordeal may be just to clarify what is slowly becoming clear anyway,that we are a dictatorship.==Hiram
Dictatorship may be a reach... Well, hopefully the DEMs can change and gain more support.
There is really nothing Democrats can do other than not be complicit in the move toward dictatorship. There is no bargain they can make that Trump will keep. Negotiations are impossible without a good faith negotiating power. Because Trump has the support of the courts, he can do what he wants.==Hiram
So you are saying that the DEMs can not improve their popularity with the majority of citizens?
If the majority DEMs think like you do... Maybe they should shut down the party...
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