Friday, December 5, 2014

Diversifying Police Departments

Speed Posting...  From MinnPost 94%

"Would it be beneficial to lower the standards for officers to get more local / minority officers?" G2A

Why do you think that for more minority officers to join the police force, standards need to be lowered? Jonathan

 "Then why don't we have a more diverse police force in Minneapolis.

Are you now saying that fully qualified Black, Latino and American Indian candidates are being turned down in a city that has been trying to diversify their police force for decades?

Police Employment Requirements:

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/recruiting/police_recruiting_recruit

https://dps.mn.gov/entity/post/exams/Pages/peace-officer-licensing-exam.aspx

https://dps.mn.gov/entity/post/becoming-a-peace-officer/Pages/peace-officer-information-for-prospective-students.aspx

https://dps.mn.gov/entity/post/becoming-a-peace-officer/Documents/Minimum_Selection_Standards_For_Licensure.pdf

"G2A

Thoughts?

14 comments:

Laurie said...

I sometimes read Minnpost and skim through the comments. When I read your full text on this topic I thought to myself "this annoying comment sounds like John" and found it amusing when I checked the name and it was yours. You do have a unique tone.

On topic, maybe what's needed is for police forces to search harder and recruit the caliber of officers they need from diverse populations rather than lower standards

John said...

Since my name shows up before the comment, that is interesting... However you are correct, some more background may help.

"I think there is a pretty strong correlation between the fact that the cops generally live in the burbs and the fact that they behave like an occupying force. Its always been pretty clear to me that on the rare occasions that the cops are not outright nasty they nonetheless have a "lady what do you expect living in Minneapolis attitude." Given that they treat me, an older affluent white lady, with utter disdain, I can't image how badly they treat my neighbors of color. Oh, and I'm a former prosecutor who worked hand in glove with law enforcement for years in another state who never thought I would have this view of cops. I was also required to live in the county I served. We need to recruit our police force from city residents or provide some sort of incentive for our police to live in the city. Also, from what I have heard once a Minneapolis cop its impossible to get hired in the burbs, so I don;t think we're getting the "cream of the suburban crop" any way." Rita

"Rationale. Given your thoughts and the fact that there are ~400,000 people who live in Minneapolis.

Why do you think more minorities and people from the city are not employed on the Minneapolis police force?

Would it be beneficial to lower the standards for officers to get more local / minority officers?

As someone mentioned above, even if they hire them initially, how would they keep them from moving to communities with better schools / demographics? Or do you belive the city should give a stipend so their kids can attend private schools?

Thoughts?? G2A

John said...

Though I whole heartedly agree that a few officers have done some really stupid things of late, I do find it disturbing how critical the Liberal commenters are regarding the men and womnen who risk their lives for all of us. (ie white, black, latino, american indian, hmong, etc)

Don't you?

Especially since these are the same people who usually defend the Public Employee Union workers and the rules that make it hard to fire the poor performers.

John said...

As for your thought

"for police forces to search harder and recruit the caliber of officers they need from diverse populations"

Do you truly belive that Urban Police Departments have not been trying this for decades?

How much more money should us tax payers expend to convince people from these populations to graduate High School, obtain Post High school training and apply for the jobs?

Laurie said...

I don't know how pay compares, but Mpls should pay more to attract the best cops from a diversity of backgrounds. The officers also need more $ to afford to live and raise families in the nicer areas of Mpls. I think well qualified minority officer candidates would likely be in high demand (just like teachers)

I think it takes time to diversify the police force. A year or two ago we had a Somali and a Hmong officer visit my school and talk with the students.

about "how critical the Liberal commenters are regarding the men and womnen who risk their lives" Maybe you are not sufficiently critical of police violence and excessive force. Here is a video of police brutality I came across today Woman hit by Calif. cop settles for cash

John said...

From one of the post links... "Salary Range $54,504 to $69,565 beginning Annual Salary - Plus Full Benefit Package. All new Police Officers will be hired at the beginning salary, depending on previous law enforcement experience." I am guessing most city dwellers would think that is pretty good for a 2 year degree.

Regarding being critical. Or Liberal commenters should be more critical of the Public Employee Unions who strive to protect poor performing personnel everywhere that they are employed? Instead they defend them aggressively.

NY Cop Texts Union Rep

Do you think any Police Supervisor would keep any questionable officer on the beat if they could fire them? Especially with all the negative publicity these unfortunate incidents are generating...

The reality is that the Public Employee Unions are fighting termination of questionable employees as usual. Just like they do for Teachers.

Laurie said...

You do have a point about unions. I have supported union protections for teachers so experienced teachers don't get fired and replaced by new, cheaper teaches. I wonder what the pay range is for police officers.

I think when we are talking about public safety the unions would be smart to not fight too hard to protect cops who are have a pattern of abuse or brutality or even a single very bad incident.

John said...

Now for my equivalence question...

Which is worse?

A poor public safety employee who negatively impacts a few citizens.

or

A poor public education employee who negatively impacts ~30 or hundreds of students per year.

Of course the public safety employee has a severe and immediate impact.(ie makes the news) However the poor public education employee makes it harder for 1,000's of children from becoming good public service employees... Or from getting other good jobs that would pull them out of poverty.

Maybe we should have rallies against the Teacher's Unions for Civil Rights violations?

Laurie said...

Maybe you should organize a protest against ineffective public school teachers. You could block the road outside your local elementary school. I am having trouble coming up with a chant for your movement; so far I thought of "hands up, call on me."

John said...

Nah, it would have to be a big road like 35W...

Potential slogans:
"Kids First, Teachers Second"

"Save the Children, Fire Ineffective Teachers"

"A Child's Mind is More Important Than Tenure, Steps and Lanes"

"Maximize the Development of Children by Maximizing the Pay of the Most Effective Teachers"

John said...

Or maybe...

"Don't Let Burnt Out Teachers Hold the Children Back"

Laurie said...

If you want to shut down a highway without getting arrested you will need to find a few friends that share your belief that the schools are full of ineffective teachers deserving of dismissal. Most people like their child's teacher and school.

I would be curious about how the rate of dismissal of teachers during their probationary period (3 years) compares with the rate of dismissal in other professions, including cops, nurses, engineers, etc. My guess is it would be higher, as many teachers do lose their jobs. I don't think they even need to be given reason.

Anonymous said...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/12/08/it-would-have-been-very-simple-to-indict-darren-wilson-and-daniel-pantaleo-heres-how/?hpid=z11

I saw the above article this morning, and I think it pretty much tells us how to get an indictment against a police officer.

--Hiram

jerrye92002 said...

Now let me get this straight: If we hire more minority officers, then we will have the situation where a black thug commits a crime, disobeys a lawful order, assaults an officer, attempts to take his gun, attempts to flee arrest, and then charges the officer and is shot. It's now all OK, right, because both officer and thug are black? Or the black officer does NOT shoot because the thug that just assaulted him is also black? At what point does reason trump this diversity fantasy?