Tuesday, September 22, 2015

Pawlenty, Civics, Suburbs, Pheasants and Emissions

In Nanning I could not access my google backed site, here in Shenzhen I can...  I need to get ready for tomorrows design review, but here are some topics I was able to comment on from Nanning.

MinnPost Pawlenty
MinnPost Civil Engagement
MinnPost An Argument Against Suburbs
MinnPost Iowegians are Coming

And here is a new story that Laurie brought to our attention.
"Here is an interesting story I just read which might interest you as you work in the auto industry (I think.) It reinforces the liberal view that corportations are sometimes evil.  WTF, Volkswagen?" Laurie

23 comments:

John said...

Not sure what the real impact of the issue is, but of course Laurie's source is over the top to the Left.

Here is what Europe and the EPA did to the diesel engine business over the last 20 years. Tier Chart I know because it helped keep me and many many thousands of engineers employed for almost 20 years. Which of course everyone paid for along with higher priced cars. On the upside they set the standards so high that some cars put out cleaner air than they pull in. (ie driving in LA smog)

And one key area where the MJ source was off, this was likely all about HUGE money. Imagine if your car / engine can out perform everyone else because it only needs to limit its performance in certain times. You can get more power, more torque, better fuel economy, etc... BIG money in additional sales.

By the way, manufactures have been designing around the tests forever by changing shift points, fuel maps, etc. It looks like VW rationalized just a bit too far.

Sean said...

There's a rather significant difference between changing shift points and what VW did here. What VW did here was equivalent to dumping toxic sludge into the river, then shutting it off when the inspector shows up, then turning it on again when they leave.

The Jetta was emitting 35x the legal limit of pollutants with its pollution controls off. The EPA has authority to fine VW up to $18B, and the Justice Department is considering criminal charges -- which, frankly, are warranted here.

John said...

"toxic sludge"... Where do you folks get this stuff.

At worse they are no worse than the Tier 0 engines which were what every diesel engine was until the 1990's. And we know they are not that bad because part of the emissions improvement was the introduction of low sulphur diesel fuel and we don't see black particulates coming out the exhaust when TDI's accelerate. This will be interesting to follow.

Wiki Euro Stds

John said...

By the way, I do agree that they likely will pay a large fine because the EPA does not like being made to look foolish, and VW crossed a line.

But the idea that every Jetta TDI is a death machine spewing filth is silly. They are likely much better than they were 15 years ago. Just not good enough.

Sean said...

The company actively violated the law. This isn't an accident or an oversight. Don't like the law, fine, but that doesn't give you the right to break it.

John said...

Last note for now. When reading on this topic, look closely for the terms NOX and Particulates. Reducing both was the goal of the program.

On the big machines we had to a Urea tank to the machines and huge "burner" to meet the highest std.

Clean Diesel

John said...

My guess is it is a bad case of "group think". Someone had a bright idea to meet the letter of the test while maintaining excellent performance and fuel economy. Then the idea self reinforced.

Laurie said...

here is a bit of VW follow up from my favorite blogger. It seems investors think the VW shenanigans is a pretty big deal:

VW Loses About $20 Billion in Value in 2 Hours

there is also this:

VW Admits to Emissions Fraud in 11 Million Vehicles

makes me wonder about pollution standards in Europe and if the problem there is legal or more of a pr thing

lastly here is link to a story about a different evil corporation:

Here's a Heartwarming Story of Innovation in the Pharmaceutical Business

Sean said...

VW got caught red-handed actively trying to evade the law, and John is here excusing them. When black people break the law or heaven forbid wear an ethnic hairstyle, they get lectured for their awful behavior.

Sean said...

Evading pollution laws is a big deal. It has real, measurable effects on health. For instance, during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, pollution levels in the city rose between 20% and 30% depending on which pollutant you were measuring. During that time, ER visits for children with respiratory illnesses rose by 42%, while ER visits for children from all other causes were in line with historical averages.

John said...

Sean,
I don't believe in judging anyone before the court does, be they a black man, policeman or VW. We will learn more over time.

Typically it seems to be the Liberals who seem to like to rile others up before the law has a chance to evaluate the facts and data.

As for a hair net, hoodie, gang colors, atypical clothing, etc... I am indifferent to the choices people make, however I believe there are consequences to making certain choices. On Saturdays and Sundays you will typically find me in paint, grass or oil stained blue jeans and in an equally distressed T shirt. However I am smart enough to not wear this attire to work, church, restaurants, etc. Choices, choices...

Sean said...

"I don't believe in judging anyone before the court does, be they a black man, policeman or VW. We will learn more over time."

But VW has admitted they did it.

Sean said...

And the global effect of VW's cheating might be as much as 1 million tons annually, which is more than the pollution emitted by Britain's power plants, vehicles, factories, and agricultural industry combined. At the low end, it's six times the emissions of Britain's largest power plant. And no matter where it is on that scale, people are dying as a result of the increased pollution as researchers have found direct links between increased diesel emissions and death rates from heart and lung disease.

John said...

Sean, Source please. And please try to find one more factual than Mother Jones. Preferably something science based with no axe to grind.

I have no doubt that they are guilty of something. I just believe the severity is much less than the alarmists are making of it. Diesel engines emit differently under different loadings. My point is that if the sources are applying the 40X increase across every mile the car drives they are likely far over stating the offense.

Here is why this issue is important according to the EPA.
EPA NOX

On the upside, I don't own a diesel car. This must be quite painful for the foreign loving car crowd. Go Germany...

Sean said...

Guardian Pollution Analysis

Laurie said...

John, it is really not that difficult to separate liberal opinion from the facts on which it is based. Liberal sources very often include links to the source of the facts they used to support their opinions.

I know you don't like Mother Jones but they are very much a realty, fact based publication. You should just ignore commentary you disagree with. Here is another mother jones link that links to Wired where the story was originally published:

Here's How Much Pollution Volkswagen's Smog Scandal Produced

John said...

Now let's remember that I agree they are guilty... No doubt there.

However this is an excellent example of liberals trying to scare people.

"A Guardian analysis found those US vehicles would have spewed between 10,392 and 41,571 tonnes of toxic gas into the air each year, if they had covered the average annual US mileage. If they had complied with EPA standards, they would have emitted just 1,039 tonnes of NOx each year in total."

No where here do they mention that 10 years ago the NOX and particulates used to be much much higher. The artical gives an impression that these NOX are something new and toxic. Like an oil spill.

When in reality the NOX used to be 10 times higher than the 41,751. Now I agree that VW failed to reduce the NOX admissions per the EPA tier schedule, but the cars are still much better than they used to be. I think this is a point that the Liberal press is totally ignoring in the name oif making headlines and scaring people. And the anti-corporate folks are eating it up without thinking.

Sean said...

"When in reality the NOX used to be 10 times higher than the 41,751. "

Well, no. The VW cars are essentially operating around at the standards that were in place from 1997-2004.

And even if that were true, it's still irrelevant. VW actively broke the law. Perhaps you should change the name of this blog to "Corporate Apologist", because you seemingly will explain away everything bad a corporation does. All you need to do now is figure out how you can blame poor people for this one.

John said...

You are funny... Please read the first sentence from my last comment.

"Now let's remember that I agree they are guilty... No doubt there."

Now the EPA and courts will decide if they are mass murderers like the Liberals are implying.... Or something less.

John said...

By the way, please remember that 2004 - 2009 was already Phase 2.

The original state was back in 1993...

Sean said...

The fact that the Cuyahoga River hasn't caught on fire for 40 years doesn't make it OK for companies to start evading laws and dumping waste back in it.

Sean said...

And now 2.1 million Audis caught the problem from their VW cousins -- which would seem to indicate high-level shenanigans going on here.

John said...

Same company, same engine, different decals / badges.