Tuesday, November 29, 2016

The MN GOP Surprise

Sean and the Urbanites are picking on the farm hicks again...
MP GOP Surprise
"I would be fine with lowering farm property taxes, for example, if that is what rural people want. If we're doing that I would like them to cut the MN Department of Agriculture or cut them out of Local Government Aid to pay for it, not make cuts to Metro Transit or the University of Minnesota.

People in rural areas need to realize that the Twin Cities are the engine of the local economy and metro taxes are paying for their schools, their nursing homes and their local government. If lower taxes are their highest priority then we need to stop paying for those items in rural areas to compensate for the loss of revenue.

I don't believe that is the best tactic in the long run. After all, those Greater Minnesota kids end up moving to the Twin Cities when they want a career and we need them prepared to contribute." Dan
"If rural Minnesota really wants to be left alone, they best make sure they understand what that means. Because without LGA or the state K-12 education funding formula or the historical 50-50 distribution of road funding dollars, the ability to kick gay people out of the local bakery may prove to be a hollow victory in the long run." Sean
"I think you underestimate how reliant the MN and Metro economy are on Agriculture, Tourism, Ag Business, etc.

Just like a 6 cylinder engine, 2 fouled plugs can ruin a car's performance.

It would be interesting to learn how many metro jobs our rural economy enables? A start is General Mills, Cargill, Land O'Lakes, CHS / Cenex, the Banks, U of MN, Syngenta, Hormel, Koch and Other Petroleum Industries, other food processing companies, Labs that focus on animal supplies/ medication / food, etc." G2A

And without rural MN, Minnesota would be a pretty boring and broke State. Who would want to live in a cold city if it were not for Cabin country, all those pristine lakes, hiking trails, etc?

Not to mention that agriculture is what made this State and the Metro what it is... Remember the term "Mill City" and some of those key businesses like General Mills, Pillsbury, Cargill, Land O Lakes, Minneapolis Moline, etc, etc.

Here is an interesting history of our area.
Development Periods 

My simple point is that somehow all Minnesotans need to work together. And respect each others views. Our system was wisely set up to force us to do so...  G2A


John said...

I really do wonder how the city folks forgot their roots and a key support system for their daily lives. Wiki MN Economy I didn't know we had mining to thank for 3M.(formerly Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Co.)

And since the most expensive schools in the State are in Mpls and St Paul... Maybe us Republican voting Suburbanites should stop subsidizing those cities...

Can't we just all just get along... :-)

Sean said...

I respect the views of rural Minnesotans. I want to help them diversify the rural economy so that instead of relying on agriculture, mining, and forestry -- where no matter how much regulation we get rid of, automation is going to naturally cap the number of jobs available there -- they can build new capabilities. We do that by investing in things like rural broadband, K-12 education, and MnSCU, all priorities Republicans have fought increasing at higher levels.

I also think that we as taxpayers should carefully think about things like copper nickel mining. The Polymet mine would create 360 mining jobs for 20 years. We also know that environmental remediation would be required for at least the next century on that site. We know that this remediation is going to be costly, and we know that there's some risk. Tailings ponds do fail and if that were to happen there would potentially be significant consequences. If we're going to allow it, we need to make sure that we're capturing revenue from the mine's operations in order to finance the remediation efforts so that taxpayers aren't left on the hook for it. If that's "picking on" rural folks, then so be it.

John said...

I agree with you on most of your comment.

What frustrates me though is that there seems to be a large group of city Liberals who think they know best and that those rural hicks are just xenophobic, racist, sexist, earth destroying, anti-government leeches who need to be controlled and taught what is right. All the while ignoring that worst part of the State is in the Heart of the Metro.

It is always easier to throw rocks at someone else's glass house.

It would be interesting how many of them have done any significant amount of manual labor. Or if they are truly book taught Liberal Elites who were raised working at a mall...

Anonymous said...

"All the while ignoring that worst part of the State is in the Heart of the Metro."

The Minnesota River, which collects water from a large portion of the best farmland in the State, is not in such terrible condition because of the Metro area. Do the rural areas care? You tell me. I grew up in a rural area within two miles of the Minnesota River in SW MN, so be careful with your assumptions.


John said...

Of course most of them care about their river... Why would you doubt this?

Us city folks dump tons and tons of salt, sand, fertilizer, organic matter and oil into the lakes and rivers... Do we care about them?

Were you a hard working farm boy or one of those sissie town kids? :-)

Anonymous said...

"Of course most of them care about their river... Why would you doubt this?"

Then why do they pollute it?

"Were you a hard working farm boy or one of those sissie town kids?"

I was neither. I don't believe in false dichotomies. And yes, I know you were trying to be funny.


John said...

"false dichotomies" Oh come now... I was doing chores before and after school while the town kids were watching TV, doing Sports, etc. My beloved daughters have no idea what real work is...

Please remember that erosion has been occurring for a very very long time. The creeks in our pastures is ~50 feet below the surrounding farm fields and the pasture is hundred of feet wide. That creek cut those pastures and flushed all that soil and organic matter down stream long before us farmers ever got there. In fact, now the farmers and Govt have been creating many many dams/settling ponds to capture that erosion and keep it from going down stream.

People wonder why the Lakes in SW MN have low water quality... Well most of them are man made and shallow. Likely they were created to slow sediment and flooding. Then folks decided they should be for recreation also.

Back at you... If the urban people care, why do they pollute it even more...

"Us city folks dump tons and tons of salt, sand, fertilizer, organic matter and oil into the lakes and rivers."

Anonymous said...

"My beloved daughters have no idea what real work is..."

I'm sure they appreciate your condescension and dismissal of the work they do. It appears as if it's not just city folk who talk down to rural folk, as the Republican lie machine insists, but it also flows the other direction.

"Please remember that erosion has been occurring for a very very long time."

Wait. Are you saying that erosion is a natural process? Well, I'll be damned.

Snark aside, do you mean to tell me that changing the environment, allowing a natural process to speed up, and then adding lakes and ponds that didn't exist before in order to stop that which we created is a good thing? I think that's the definition of hubris.

And FYI, there used to be many times more wetlands in SW MN than there are now. We've removed the natural process of filtering and slowing water, which reduces erosion and runoff, which of course would have kept the Minnesota River cleaner than it is today. It's funny that farmers and the Govt are now trying to replicate something that nature had already done much better.


John said...

The unfortunate reality is that my daughters think that cleaning up after themselves and putting dishes in a dishwasher are work... Now they do keep very busy with their studies and extracurricular activities, and sometimes have office and/or park & rec jobs. But yes they have been very coddled. No extended physical labor required.

Please remember that most water is filtered via the tile systems. (ie submerged inlets) We do send more water downstream, however I think the dams and settling ponds do a better job of catching the sediment.

Remember the millions of yards of erosion that came out of our pasture before the modern farmer even arrived.

So again, do us city folks care about the rivers?

Anonymous said...

"Remember the millions of yards of erosion that came out of our pasture before the modern farmer even arrived."

Remember the millions of yards on topsoil the prairie created that modern farmers have squandered?

"...however I think the dams and settling ponds do a better job of catching the sediment."

Better than the balanced ecosystem that evolved due to natural processes? No.

"No extended physical labor required."

Yes, the old legend that anything that isn't physical labor isn't 'real' work. Utter nonsense and hardly worthy of a response.


John said...

Since I have spent a lot of time doing both kinds of work, I can assure you that it is not a legend. They are both necessary and important, but they are very different.

I still recommend that you watch or read The Ultimate Gift

John said...

As for erosion, water pollution, balanced ecosystem that evolved due to natural processes...

Oh come now, the wet spots weren't some act of natural magic... They were just uneven spots where the receding glaciers left them.

While you are at it do you want get rid of all the dams and levies that slow the water down and keep it from flushing out the river like it did in centuries past?

Or should the cities outlaw salt on sidewalks and roads? Maybe we should stop driving cars because they leak oil on to the road, which then washes in to the rivers? Maybe we should destroy all of the buildings and other hard surfaces because the water runs off them instead of flowing into the ground to be filtered?

What was your point again?

Sean said...

"So again, do us city folks care about the rivers?"

Wouldn't most Republicans say we care too much about the rivers already?

John said...

I am not sure, but trying to regulate everyone else while you are applying salt/sand, fertilizing your yard, blowing grass clippings into the road, putting up with that small oil leak, dumping questionable chemicals into the storm sewer, paving over more grass, etc seems more like what the Democrats would do... :-)

Same old problem...

"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." Tolstoy

Sean said...

You don't think city folk have to deal with regulations dealing with water quality? Isn't that one of the reasons why the tyrannical Met Council has to be tossed out?

John said...

Yes there are regulations a plenty, but mostly applied to and enforced on businesses / framers at great expense. Us citizens get off pretty easy.

I think people dislike the Met Council because they are not elected and hold a great deal of power.

If this is true. That is a lot of "State" meddling in local affairs.

"The Met Council currently has 17 members, 16 of which represent a geographic district in the seven-county area with one chair who serves "at large." All members are appointed by the Governor of Minnesota and are reappointed with each new governor in office. The Minnesota Senate may confirm or reject each appointment."