It is amazing to me that Trump and the idiot GOP folks released this silly GOP created memo... Hopefully the DEM version is released soon so we can see the whole picture.
CNN Disputed Memo
One more thought, if Congress is responsible for oversight... Why again would they release this half baked letter to the public? It is like a Boss sending a note about an employee to the whole company instead of just working with the employee or firing them.
CNN Disputed Memo
And for you Trump True Believers and Conspiracy Theory Lovers
Here are my thoughts regarding some of the excerpts.
I mean it clearly shows that Papadopoulus was the cause for the investigation of the Trump lackeys...
I mean it clearly shows that Papadopoulus was the cause for the investigation of the Trump lackeys...
"The Page FISA application also mentions information regarding fellow Trump campaign advisor George Papadopoulos, but there is no evidence of any cooperation or conspiracy between Page and Papadopoulos. The Papadopoulos information triggered the opening of an FBI counterintelligence investigation in late July 2016 by FBI agent Pete Strzok."
It shows clearly that Steele was a trusted FBI source until after this situation.
"Steele was suspended and then terminated as an FBI source for what the FBI defines as the most serious of violations—an unauthorized disclosure to the media of his relationship with the FBI in an October 30, 2016, Mother Jones article by David Corn."
It shows that the surveillance was justified since the probable cause of what had been learned justified re-authorizing the warrant 3 times. Some detail from VOX.
"The FBI and DOJ obtained one initial FISA warrant targeting Carter Page and three FISA renewals from the FISC. As required by statute (50 U.S.C. §1805(d)(1)), a FISA order on an American citizen must be renewed by the FISC every 90 days and each renewal requires a separate finding of probable cause. "So in summary:
- questionable things were happening and warrants were issued
- multiple sources pointed the law enforcement officials to Trump's staff
- the taps were yielding valuable information so the warrants were renewed
- the Trump organization feels threatened because they know inappropriate things occurred
- meetings with Russian operatives, other?
- the Trump supporters want to discredit what started the investigation
- in hopes that everything learned since then will be forgotten
One more thought, if Congress is responsible for oversight... Why again would they release this half baked letter to the public? It is like a Boss sending a note about an employee to the whole company instead of just working with the employee or firing them.
21 comments:
The point of the memo is to create confusion. And it also reinforces implicit assumptions that because they aren't challenged, become increasingly accepted. The most significant such assumption, it seems to me is that people who are critical to Trump are biased, and must therefore be excluded from investigating Trump, and from out debate generally. Carried by a not very extreme logic, given the fact that Trump lost the popular election and has dreadful poll numbers, this would exclude most of America from our political affairs.
Trump's supporters argue that the informants whose statements provided a basis for the warrant had political interests that were not disclosed to the judge. But in this world, lots of folks have interests which aren't disclosed to judges, something judges know very well. The reality is that people who aren't interested tend not to know much about nefarious goings on, and if they were the only ones allowed to bring forth evidence, not much criminality would ever get prosecuted at all.
--Hiram
I understand that... What disappoints me so is that millions of Fox news watchers will take this seriously.
I mean that idiot Hannity is already calling for charges to be dropped and the investigation ended even though Flynn has already plead guilty.
The hypocrisy of both sides just drives me nuts...
If Hillary's staff had done what Trump's did the Conservative crazies would be calling for her hear. Since it is Trump, they are striving so hard to bury the truth and charges.
We live in a country full of crazies.
I am really going to miss McCain when he is gone.
Fox viewers have make the decision not to care. They accept Trump because he speaks to their concerns, reinforces their world view, and delivers on their priorities. As one fanatical Trump supporter said to me, we elect presidents not pastors. Millions of Americans find that line of thinking to be compelling.
The reversal argument, that the right would be up in arms if it was Hillary who was pulling these shenanigans, is both true and unpersuasive. Trump supporters understand that her priorities would have been different, that it would be someone else's world view that gets the reinforcing. I am pretty firmly committed to the idea that the parties are not mirror images of each other, and that whatever it is, it's hardly ever the case that both sides do it. People on my side of things seem oddly vulnerable to charges of hypocrisy. It hurts us when people say we fall short of our goals as we often do. We are nervous when we are inconsistent, and we never seem to respond well when our inconsistencies are pointed out. The curious thing is that this sort of thing seems to bother the other side much less. The moralizing party of the religious really isn't bothered at all by the possibility that their candidate had an affair with a porn star months after his wife gave birth, and as recently year paid her hush money. How did that work out by the way? Those are just a couple of examples, but of course I could go on, and on, and on, and yet none of it would matter. And maybe it doesn't.
--Hiram
about "The hypocrisy of both sides just drives me nuts.." what dem hypocrisy are you referring to? I can't think of any related to this story.
One fact that you left out that seems important to me is how much info the FBI shared about Clinton investigation during the election while never mentioning that they were also investigating Trump. These seems quite biased or unfair to me.
We do hypocrisy a lot. Much as we hate money in politics, Hillary raised a lot of it. The Trump foundation may have tax avoidance scheme, but active politicians shouldn't have foundations as Hillary did. Trump is an all world creep, but Bill Clinton is pretty much a creep too, and he is still very popular with us.
I am not that troubled, myself, about accusations of hypocrisy. Better to have standards and fall short of them, than to have no standards at all.
Laurie,
There were more than enough reasons to disqualify Hillary as the Democratic candidate and yet the DNC and many DEMs had no problem defending her to the end. I see little difference between the Far Left and Far Right.
They are both willing to turn a blind eye lying, deceiving, conspiracy, etc as long as it supports their political agenda.
Hillary had her problems, but I don't think any of them amounted to disqualification. Certainly not when her opponent was quite simply unfit for office. The email stuff was pure nonsense. The problem came in her ability to speak to the issue effectively.
I don't think in any kind of normal universe Hillary would have been our candidate in 2016. She was our version of Jeb Bush. But unlike Jeb, she didn't have any serious opposition. The fact is, that she had problems in defeating unserious opposition should have been a warning to us.
--Hiram
Hiram,
From my position there was enough smoke around Hillary and Bill for decades that the DEMs should have never let her near being a candidate.
But as I say the DEMs back her... And the GOPers back Trump...
This is a sad state of affairs.
from my perspective all the smoke around the clinton's was from GOP attacks. I don't think Hillary has been shown to have done anything significantly wrong. I just don't see hypocrisy. I voted for Hillary and still admire her.
Laurie,
Well you keep thinking highly of Hillary.
and
Jerry will keep thinking highly of Trump.
Sounds about normal. :-)
Hillary has not told 2000 lies.
I will agree that she was much more devious and circumspect. Though I have no idea many lies she has told.
Defending her womanizing husband and attacking his "victims" has probably earned her a special place in woman's hell. The good news though is that she can wave at Trump in Men's hell. :-)
Just curious... Which is worse?
- a person who lies so often and blatantly that everyone knows they are doing it?
- a person who manipulates people and the system with subtle untruths?
I really don't know...
Trump truly is an idiot or delusional though. CNN Trump Says Memo Vindicates Him
I can not even imagine how he reached that silly conclusion...
CNN FISA Court Knew
CNN 4 Lies in 47 word tweet
I never thought there was much smoke around Hillary. Her critics are amazingly unconcerned of much worse things folks they support do. They oppose even the slightest efforts to reform the practices that they find so hideous when Hillary does them. They make disingenuousness an art form. And now as some sort of cosmic justice for their civic sins, they are forced, seemingly, into defending a guy who is corrupt beyond anything the Clintons could have dreamed of, while being manifestly unfit for the job.
--Hiram
Karma: "action, seen as bringing upon oneself inevitable results, good or bad, either in this life or in a reincarnation"
GOP Members Distance Themselves
FBI Special Agent Quits in Protest
Would Trump be egotistical enough to withold the DEM version?
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