Tuesday, July 30, 2013

What a Black Man Can Say That A White Man Can't...

I happened across Don Lemon's video, it was very interesting.  He makes a lot of sense to me.  Bill O'Reilly's comments were likely considered "racist" since he is a white guy...  Now what to think when Don Lemon, a black guy, agrees with him in many areas and goes even further.
CNN Don Lemon's 5 Things to Think About Video

It reminds me of my friend who immigrated from Ethiopia, learned English and earned an Engineering degree.  He was explaining to me the guff he got/gets from others of his own skin color who still see themselves as  limited / stuck, and how it frustrates him since he knows the solution is readily available to them if they get out of their own way and get to work.  Repeatedly he has expressed gratitude for all of the programs ear marked for minorities that helped him get his degree.

Watch the FOX video closely.  They have African American guests who have very different ideas on the issues.  I of course like the guy from Georgetown.
Is Fear of Robbery Racist?
The Real Black Issues
FOX News Problems Facing Problems
10 Biggest Problems Facing African Americans

Thoughts?

28 comments:

Anonymous said...

"It reminds me of my friend who immigrated from Ethiopia, learned English and earned an Engineering degree. He was explaining to me the guff he got/gets from others of his own skin color who still see themselves as limited / stuck, and how it frustrates him since he knows the solution is readily available to them if they get out of their own way and get to work"

How are things going in Ethiopia?

==Hiram

Laurie said...

That is an odd assortment of links you have included. As usual I have one to add.

The Privilege of Whiteness

Racism is a very difficult problem to address (and to discuss). I think with the right history of acknowledging the affects of racism and the right tone to the discussion a white person could talk about all the problems mentioned in the Don Lemon video without being labeled racist. Many on the right (such as Bill O.) deny that racism is still a problem. The response to the Zimmerman verdict on Fox news was a bit racist in my opinion.

So what do you think are you the beneficiary of white privilege? One time my teenage son was pulled over for about 5 violations (speeding, passing in a no passing zone, half full beer can in the front seat, no license, and no registration) and got off with a warning. Would a African American teen been treated with the same leniency?

I am heading out for a few days up north and hope to be able to continue this interesting topic if others keep the discussion going.

Laurie said...

Here's one more link related to racism in our society.

The Reality of Our Race-Based Achievement Gap

I think here in MN there is a high level of awareness of the race based achievement gap and also some steps to counteract it, such as at least a small focus on teacher quality and greater funding for preschool and all day kindergarten, which could help in closing the gap, at least slightly.

John said...

I guess I am not interested in "white privelage" right now. I am more interested why a significant number of American born Blacks insist that dressing professionally and succeeding academically are a bad thing??? (Ie whitey) And why so many people want to protect those unique cultural beliefs?

John said...

Right now Grace at MPP is trying again to explain that White crime rates are as significant and important as those of Blacks. While I agree that being Black is not the cause of the the high crime rates, it is hard to argue against a correlation being present. And I assume history, culture, belief systems, economics, academics, etc that are more apparent in Black communities are the actual cause.

Ignoring these factors and blaming whitey isn't helping anyone...

Speed, If you read this, have demographics ever influenced what time of day you would feel safe walking through various neighborhoods?

John said...

Personally I would feel safer walking the streets of Plymouth at midnight, over say North Mpls. However I maybe misinformed regarding the relative risk...

Laurie said...

I think the point of the MPP post is when and how black crime is reported can be slightly racist.

I think people get too defensive whenever the subject of racism is broached. Racism is just one of many factors affecting African American communities and describing it as "blaming whitey" adds little of value to the discussion or to alleviating problems that disproportionately affect black americans.

People living in rural and suburban areas might get the impression that urban areas / minority neighborhoods are much more dangerous than they are if they rely on Fox news. My sister in law who lived about an hour outside Milwaukee was quite racist, maybe partly due to the Milwaukee news she saw each day.

John said...

I do not deny that there can be bias in reporting, the reporters are human after all. And yes white and other surburban folks seem to kill each other on a rather regular basis. However, the reality is that random shootings in the streets of Plymouth are near non-existent... Where as these types of shootings seem to occur fairly regularly downtown.

And do you really think the media wouldn't cover an "in the street shoot out" in Plymouth? With Black or White perpetrators... I am thinking something that out of the norm would make huge headlines...

John said...

I found this map pretty telling...
Violent Crime Map

It came from here....
Rambix

It would be interesting to see an up to date version. I am guessing it looks pretty similar.

John said...

"problems that disproportionately affect black americans"

That is the problem, you truly believe "IT" is just happening to them. Or worse, "SOMEONE" is doing it to them on purpose...

Yet somehow my broke non-English speaking very black co-worker avoids crime, sacrifices to gain knowledge, finds programs that will help him, and ends up with a great degree and job...

I don't disagree that there are racist people in the world who do stupid things due to their prejudices. But come on now, get over it. If this immigrant can pull it off, others who are born here should have no problem if they really choose to try and work hard...

Of course they probably will need to dress professionally, respect teachers, value academics, work hard, etc, etc, etc. Seems to me that is just what Don and the gentleman from Georgetown were saying. Now why is that so hard for a sub-group within that population to accept these realities.

By the way, this problem isn't limited to a subgroup of Blacks. There are plenty of White folk buy into the low academic, hand out, rebellious look, etc culture.

G2A Why are poor people poor?

Laurie said...

John, you draw very odd conclusions about my beliefs from my comments. I wrote "Racism is just one of many factors affecting African American communities." I think that "problems that disproportionately affect black americans" are very complex, not
"IT" is just happening to them. Or worse, "SOMEONE" is doing it to them on purpose..."

As we both think education is the main solution you might enjoy reading How Children Succeed: Grit, Curiosity, and the Hidden Power of Character

I've read it twice.

John said...

If one shoots themself in the foot, is that a problem that is affecting them?
Or a problem that they inflicted upon themself? I think that was my point. Affect to me implies something that happens to you and down plays one's personal responsibility. Which I see as the crux of the problem.

My friend was affected by language, financial, race, etc issues and yet he done good...

I'll try to get to the book, you know how much I liked his other book. "Whaatever it takes"

John said...

Here are some related posts I am commenting on.
MPP White Mob Violence
White Crime Problem

Laurie said...

I have been reading Jim Wallis this week, On God's Side."

He talks quite a bit about how the right gets it right with their focus on personal responsibility and the left is also right with their focus on social responsibility/social justice.

What I don't understand is what action does a belief in personal responsibility lead to concerning the pdaaa (problems disproportionately affecting African Americans.) Does one write a letter to the editor saying that African Americans should work harder or get married before having children etc?

Also I think nearly all liberals agree that personal responsibility is important. Teachers are like broken records talking about making good choices.

John said...

"problems disproportionately affecting African Americans (PDAAA)"

Tell me more about what you think these are?

I was at the golf driving range with my youngest tonight. As we were leaving, an older Black man was getting out of an absolutely beautiful newer black E series Mercedes. I couldn't help but notice that he was wearing nice plaid shorts and a polo shirt.

Their were no low hung pants, no rap music, etc. If I would spoken with him, I am sure he would have been as well spoken and intelligent as Don Lemon. I had to wonder if he thinks he has betrayed the "Black Culture" by becoming intelligent, apparently wealthy, professionally dressed, etc?

Laurie said...

I think the primary PDAAA is poverty. Many of the other problems such as drop out rate, crime, incarceration, single parent families, etc are related to some degree to poverty. All of these problems also affect white America, especially those living in poverty, but often to a lesser degree (that is why I put the D in PDAAA)

So what does one do who believes in primarily in personal responsbility? Move to a suburb with a low poverty rate, or maybe eventually to gated community if more of the problems come to your town?

John said...

I think you have your cause and effect backwards.

Do you really think that poverty causes unwed mothers, anti-academic beliefs, desire to wear expensive "rapper" attire, disrepect for Teachers and peers, criminal activity, etc.

If you do I need to introduce you to some of my poor law abiding friends. They will typically tell you they are poor because they made some really bad life choices.

John said...

Typically those choices were behavioral in nature. Hard time getting along with bosses, doing/saying inappropriate things at work, buying too much on credit, not getting a post K12 education, getting divorced, etc. Nothing terribly bad but they all added up to low incomes, a very low net worth and/or bankruptcy.

Ironically speaking of financial troubles, I am sitting in the Detroit airport awaiting my flight to Seoul.... They seem to have all their services working here.

Laurie said...

I am currently taking a cousera class on social psychology in which we reviewed how correlation is different from causation. I said many of the PDAAA were related to poverty. Maybe all are caused by a third thing- racism :)

Of course all are obviously caused by bad choices, I just think society has a role in helping people make better choices. As you have not answered about what someone who believes primarily (exclusively?) in personal responsibility does about PDAAA (or low income people in general) I assume the answer is nothing.

Being a lefty with a primary concern in social responsibility I think their are things that can be done to help.

Anonymous said...

I am currently taking a cousera class on social psychology in which we reviewed how correlation is different from causation

Which do we use more? Correlation or causation?

--Hiram

Laurie said...

It seems to me causation implies correlation as well, but not always the other way around. I think people sometimes mistakenly assume causation when things are correlated. Sorry, but I don't know enough to give a good example. I think the social problems, low income, limited education, drug use, incarceration, single parent etc. have correlation but the causation relationships are harder to determine.

Anonymous said...

It seems to me causation implies correlation as well, but not always the other way around.

Maybe not always but correlation is evidence of causation, and is a much more useful tool for understanding the world.

--Hirqm

John said...

With Love from South Korea. Weather is warm and humid. And getting over jet lag sucks as always... You think it's 6 PM on Tuesday and for me it is 8 AM on Wednesday...

For your C and C questions please reference the links here.

G2A Correlation does not imply Causation

Laurie said...

Hope you have some time to sight see while in Korea. I have a trip planned to the very exotic town of Hibbing this weekend.

John said...

Lots and lots of people....
MN vs S Korea

Less than 1/2 the size of MN with 10 times the population. And a lot of the area is taken up by small mountains where no one lives...

When I get back I am driving out to Corcoran to stand in a soy bean field...

Otherwise everyone has been great...

John said...

Not my pictures, but they match what I am seeing.

rackcdn S Korea Skyline
S Korea Street Scene

Laurie said...

I would have a hard time with the crowdedness as well. I have been thinking about moving to Mpls when younger son graduates and is there enough open space there for me.

John said...

Thankfully in my longer walk last night. I found that they do have parks and green spaces scattered around. It is hot and humid here, so it was fun to see the kids playing in the fountains, just like they do at home.

Similar to what I found
Kids at play