Monday, June 15, 2015

Koch Brothers vs RNC

"I thought of you when I read it, John, and am curious as to your reaction." Laurie

Washington Monthly Kochs vs RNC
Salon First Step Towards GOP Civil War
WP Swallow the GOP

I think I am somewhat indifferent to the family scuffle, and somewhat hopeful. I think the fiscal conservative somewhat libertarian philosophy is best for the country, however the Republican party has been wasting so much energy fighting gay marriage, abortion, foreign wars, etc that many voters are turned off.

The Kochs are pragmatic business people who know how to focus to achieve incredible results.  They won't be able to control the party, but they may be able to focus it and win some more moderate votes.

25 comments:

Anonymous said...

Increasingly the party is irrelevant in terms of actual management of campaigns. Special interest groups will and are running their own campaigns rather than turning their money over to the parties, where they can't control now it's used.

--Hiram

John said...

From Laurie

John,I thought you would object to the way the blogger characterized libertarianism:

Libertarianism is nothing more than a shameless effort to glorify selfishness,

Libertarian ideology is nothing less than an existential threat to America’s security, cohesion, safety and health.

All of us—progressives, centrists, moderates, even the handful of rational conservatives left—have a moral obligation to fight the cancer of libertarianism and keep it from growing within the body of our democracy; if we don’t fight it, our democracy will soon wind up in hospice care.

We must condemn libertarianism as a radical ideology that’s every bit as pernicious as the radical ideologies of the past

We must educate our young people to understand that the end result of Ayn Rand is a social and economic wasteland.

I think the Kochs are incredibly selfish and greedy and won't be winning many moderate votes. Many people aren't that fond of Hillary, but I think some of them will vote for her rather than the Koch brothers candidate.

John said...

Hi Laurie,
I posted at work and for some reason could only see down to the video. Now that I have read the article, I do think the blogger is deeply confused and misinformed.

I would change his statement to something like this:

Liberal ideology is nothing less than an existential threat to America’s security, cohesion, safety and health. It seeks to undo the rewards gained by learning, working, saving, charitable giving and investing, while increasing the rewards for sloth, bad choices, free loading, etc. It wishes to turn poor against rich and weak against powerful. It recognizes no moral code except for that established by the self-serving lazy, foolish and/or unlucky as they strive to "get their money for nothing and their chicks for free".

Damn that MTV... :-)

Unknown said...

Here are a few thoughts on libertarians from another of my favorite bloggers:

Here's Why Libertarians Are Mostly Men

It seems liberal ideology has been shown to work in scandinavian countries. Where is a successful model of libertarian ideology in practice?

It also seems to me that striving for univerasal health care reflects a solid moral code.

Anonymous said...


Liberal ideology is nothing less than an existential threat to America’s security, cohesion, safety and health.

But rather demonstrably, conservative ideology very nearly destroyed our country in 2008. And in terms of learning, Jeb Bush proved yesterday that no one is more determined to learn less from their mistakes than conservatives.

--Hiram

John said...

Hiram, You can be such a drama queen... "nearly destroyed our country in 2008"

Please prove this statement with some kind of source.

John said...

These folks are a bit extreme to be sure.
Libertarian Platform

Just as the DSA folks are.

John said...

The Lib Platform is definitely closer to the Anarchist extreme.

And the DSA is closer to the Tyranny extreme.

Time for one of my favorite songs... Rush Trees

Anonymous said...

Hiram, You can be such a drama queen... "nearly destroyed our country in 2008"

I was there. I saw a financial system brought to the brink of failure by 8 years of Republican policies. Nothing is more ridiculous then when I hear Republicans talk about their pro growth agenda which cost us millions of jobs last time it was tried.

Have people really forgotten these things?

--Hiram

John said...

Here we go again...

Correlation Does Not Equal Correlation

Remember how I told you we have a recession about every ~8 years... This graphic shows it pretty good.

Bad news ~8 years occurs in ~2016...

John said...

If Bush and crew did anything wrong, they minimized the depth and the duration of the 2002 down turn. Therefore people did not feel the pain and in their excessive confidence over extended themselves on that dream home.

Unknown said...

It's funny how republican blame the 2008 crash and great recession on people borrowing too much $ and democrats blame it on wall street.

John said...

Me being the fence sitter...

40% Mortgagees, 40% Banks / Investors, 20% Government

May vary somewhat, but it is in the ball park. No mortgage defaults, no problem...

Time for one of my favorite videos.

Anonymous said...

May vary somewhat, but it is in the ball park. No mortgage defaults, no problem...


The other day, Jeb Bush was talking about the huge economic growth in Florida under his governorship, and how he wanted to extend those policies to the nation. Growth in Florida under his governorship was entirely due to the real estate bubble that was fueled under his leadership. All those mortgages facilitated by Republican policies. Florida was among the states hit hardest by the recession, and there is no evidence at all today of the growth Jeb Bush claimed he created.

--Hiram

John said...

That "Not Me" character shows up many places...

You continue to fully blame the banks, investors and Republicans. Instead of acknowledging that Democrats and Home Owners also contributed.

Sean said...

"If Bush and crew did anything wrong, they minimized the depth and the duration of the 2002 down turn."

The recession of 2000-2001 was a mild one. The employment impacts of it drug out a bit because of 9/11 and an ineffective policy response.

John said...

It was a mild one because of the tax cuts, all the war spending, the housing bubble, etc. It could / should have been much worse.

I mean they kept the unemployment rate below 6% according to that link. Not sure what you saw as inffective...

The only significant downside was the start of the huge national debt growth.

Sean said...

"I mean they kept the unemployment rate below 6% according to that link. Not sure what you saw as inffective..."

The job growth coming out of it was paltry. Worse than the Obama job growth. If you go from the bottom of the respective job troughs (April 2003 for Bush, February 2010 for Obama), Obama has created 2x as many private-sector jobs in the same amount of time since hitting bottom. I would argue that's because Obama's policies have been driven much more to providing broad-based stimulus, as opposed to focusing much of it at the wealthiest Americans.

jerrye92002 said...

"It also seems to me that striving for univerasal [sic] health care reflects a solid moral code." -- Laurie

What is moral about slavery??? The ONLY way that all of us can have something of value is if it is taken from someone else, by force, and given to us. That means we either extract tax money from everybody to pay the doctors, or we force the doctors to work for free. The best "moral code" would be to allow those who wish to VOLUNTARILY offer charity health care to those in need to do so. The whole notion of government-provided "universal care" is completely contrary, even mutually exclusive of, that moral principle.

John said...

Sean,
Have you ever pushed a ball down in the water?

It always comes up faster the deeper it is released.
Better link

Anonymous said...

You continue to fully blame the banks, investors and Republicans. Instead of acknowledging that Democrats and Home Owners also contributed.

Sure, it was there policies that turned debt defaults into economic catastrophe. And now we have Jeb Bush claiming the benefit of those policies without seeming to recall or even being aware of how ultimately disastrous they proved to be.

--Hiram

John said...

"no one is more determined to learn less from their mistakes than conservatives."

I think there is another group... It is the Liberals...

Anonymous said...

Well, in this case, it's Jeb Bush who wants to return to the policies that bankrupted Florida.

--Hiram

jerrye92002 said...

Is Florida bankrupt? Last I heard it was Detroit, California and Illinois, all liberal havens.

John said...

That comment puzzled me also...
State Growth List