Thursday, July 14, 2016

Racism or Logic

Sean left this interesting comment and link.  "Clearly black folks are just making it all up, right?"

WP Disrespect from the Police
“While I thank God I have not endured bodily harm, I have, however, felt the pressure applied by the scales of justice when they are slanted,” Scott said. “I have felt the anger, the frustration, the sadness and the humiliation that comes with the feeling that you are being targeted for being nothing more than yourself.”
“The vast majority of time, I was pulled over for nothing more than driving a new car in the wrong neighborhood, or some reason just as trivial,” Scott said. “Imagine the frustration, the irritation, the sense of a loss of dignity that accompanies each of those stops.”

Another time, Scott said, he was entering one of the Senate’s offices wearing the pin that identified him as a member of Congress. An officer stopped him, demanding his identification."
Now I am quite certain that the Black folks are not making this up.  I have no doubt that they are stopped more often. My point is that I don't think they are stopped by Racists.  I think they are stopped by discerning Police who have noticed something that looks out of place.

Some reason Blacks would be stopped more often include:
  • Many Black people are poor and therefore own old questionable vehicles (ie bad electrical systems)
  • Black membership in Gangs is far higher than white membership
  • Many Black people live in High crime areas
  • Many Black people have less education and/or communicate poorly with officers
  • Many Black families have single Parent (ie middles school kids likely have more "free / unscheduled / unsupervised time")
Just as a Middle Aged White Guy in a panel van near the park should be watched closer and maybe talked to, unfortunately young Black males need to watched closer.  It isn't their fault, it is just statistics based on the higher level of misbehavior by other Black males.

I mean look at this silliness. U of MN Stops Using Race as a Warning Descriptor  Maybe next they will stop using height, weight, hair color, etc...  I mean my hair is kind of brown, I may feel humiliated when a criminal with brown hair is on the loose raping girls...  Or maybe sex would be too vague...


John said...

From Jerry on the previous post:

"Sen. Scott is correct that black people have a disproportionate rate of "contacts" with the police. It should also be noted that the police have a disproportionate rate of contacts with black people. On one side that is attributed to racism and on the other to simple criminal behavior. If there were another readily visible and statistically significant marker for suspicious behavior, like spiked hair or do-rags, I would expect the police to USE that marker. Until black crime rates are reduced we are going to have these discrepancies and portraying them as racism simply perpetuates the problem.

Sen. Scott is also rightly indignant because police do not recognize him for the content of his character rather than the color of his skin. I would hope he would also reserve some of that outrage for those many for whom skin color coincides with a seriously flawed character, making the indignities he suffers more likely. "

Anonymous said...

They also have strange noses.


Anonymous said...

Well, John, you continue to write things that only indicate that you're okay with racist actions, and you write veritable novels justifying it.

It's really kind of gross how perfectly happy you are with the status quo. But that really only goes to show that it's never your ox being gored.

You should count yourself lucky to be among America's anointed, yet you do nothing but complain about our government, which are the very ones who've anointed you.


John said...

Actually I thank my boring White peers.

Most of them:
- still live in households with 2 Parents
- don't join gangs
- do supervise their kids closely
- do graduate from High School
- do conform to American Business cultural norms
- etc

Of course we do have our outliers. The White poor who are likely pulled over as often as the Black poor.

Now I know you are determined to make this about Race. However the facts say this is about 2 different groups of people who behave differently and are therefore treated differently.

John said...

Do you truly believe that the Black and White societies are roughly identical in the areas of education, wealth, beliefs, behaviors, communication methods, where they live, crime rate, etc?

If yes, then racism may make sense.

If no, then it is more likely to be a different factor.

By the way, yes I am happy with using our scarce resources more efficiently. Searching my ~76 year old Parents before they get on a plane is a waste of money and personnel who could be looking out for true terrorists.

Stopping to have chat with the middle aged man driving the panel van around the park is better thing. Even if he has not snatched a child yet...

John said...

Does anyone know the arrest rate, shooting rate, etc for poor white people who fail school, have a high incidence of unstable households, may have a chip on their shoulder, high crime rate, etc?

It would be interesting to compare against the similar Black households.

Sean and folks like to make this about Race, I thinks it is about capabilities, beliefs, behaviors, wealth, etc.

Anonymous said...

"I thinks it is about capabilities, beliefs, behaviors, wealth, etc."

Of course you do, because it allows you to feel good about yourself and your peers.

Reality is far more complicated.


Anonymous said...

Another Look at Police Shootings of Unarmed Civilians

John said...

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
More definitions

Discrimination -
1. an act or instance of discriminating, or of making a distinction.

2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit:
racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

3.the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment:
She chose the colors with great discrimination.

4. Archaic. something that serves to differentiate.

John said...

Unfortunately reality is pretty easy. And pretty sad.

Mpls Shot Spotter

Toddler Shot

Gangs by Race

Mpls School Results by Race

State of Unions

Anonymous said...

WATCH: Black GOP Senator Says He's Been Stopped By Police 7 Times In A Year

jerrye92002 said...

Apparently we need to distinguish between racism and discrimination. Reducing the former is highly desirable and, as a cultural issue, yielding to the passage of time (and would yield faster if those profiting from it would quit shouting about it). The latter is an essential survival tactic, both individually and societally speaking. Let us suppose for just a moment that the man shot in Minneapolis WAS the perpetrator of the armed robbery just prior. Under that circumstance, the traffic stop and the high suspicions of the officer would have been readily justified, and a criminal would have been brought to justice, although unfortunately without a trial. BUT, what we are asked to believe instead is that if the suspect's description had just excluded his race, the man would have been innocent, would never have been stopped, and would be alive today. But WHY? Why would you NOT state the most obvious characteristic of an attacker? That is a lack of "discrimination" that makes no sense at all.

Sean said...

Yet the patterns don't seem to change even when we see (like in Ferguson, for instance -- or the analysis of St. Anthony police stops that the Pioneer Press did) that police find more drugs, weapons, and other contraband when they stop whites than blacks. The police still stop blacks disproportionately (in St. Anthony the PP found gap has widened over time, not declined).

Sean said...

And, as something of a counter, here's a good piece on the sometime not-so-usefulness of statistics when looking at policing:

Why it's impossible to calculate the percentage of police shootings that are legitimate

jerrye92002 said...

Sorry, Sean, I'm unable to access that link, but I can agree with the fundamental idea that we ought to stop looking at this problem of police shootings, and arrests, etc. as a racial problem. It is my belief that, if any of the highly-publicized and over-dramatized cases of white-cop-shoots-black-man been different in one major factor, the results would be identical. That is, had a white person behaved in exactly the fashion as the black man did, they would have been shot just the same. What is almost impossible is to say that race was the principle factor driving the course of events in any of these cases. And SHOULD an arrest or mistreatment be caused by racist motivations and proven in a court of law, I would think the officer would receive appropriate sanction. I can think of only one case where that was true, though. In the OJ trial, questions were raised about Detective Mark Fuhrmann being a racist and that "reasonable doubt" (reasonable or otherwise) affected the case. The most recent case, there was NOTHING to suggest that racism was involved. The suspect was described as black. The person stopped on suspicion was black. The person apparently "went for a gun" and at that point race made no difference.

jerrye92002 said...

jerrye92002 said...

I see by this morning's paper that Nekima Levy-Pounds, local race pimp, has declared the problem to be "overcriminalization of the black community" by police. A fascinating defense, translated as "the cops made me do it." I also see she has demanded more black cops, but apparently can't get anybody to actually step up and take the job. Whose fault is that, I wonder?

John said...

Maybe things would improve if we offered the Black High School Drop Out gang members jobs as police... That would have to be better than having White college grads... :-)

Is that the logic?

jerrye92002 said...

I am forced to admit that our inner city schools do not adequately educate black students for any job, let alone police officers. It is almost a chicken-egg problem. We don't educate enough for police (or any) work, so they drop out and become burdens on the police. Considering how much we spend for this education vs law&order dysfunction, those suggesting fixing the "root of the problem" have a great point, though unfortunately no clue.

John said...

As usual I think it 70% the Parent's fault and 30% our Public Education system's fault.

Now look at this Racist Sheriff who dislikes BLM.

jerrye92002 said...

And as usual I think we should get that 30% that we supposedly control fixed first and immediately, and maybe that 70%, that we do not control, will get reduced as a consequence.