After listening to NPR on the way in to work, where GOPers were pointing fingers at the DEMs and DEMers were pointing fingers at at the GOP... It is hard to disagree with CNN Washington is Broken.
Though Trump is absolutely failing as a leader, it is hard to see What would make Americans Happy? "We the People" seem to be splitting into 2 very stubborn and self centered camps.
I have no idea how to change / improve on this. And how do we expect politicians to better at representing the people, when we have so little common ground?
Though Trump is absolutely failing as a leader, it is hard to see What would make Americans Happy? "We the People" seem to be splitting into 2 very stubborn and self centered camps.
I have no idea how to change / improve on this. And how do we expect politicians to better at representing the people, when we have so little common ground?
39 comments:
Here's an idea: elect better people. Look past party lines. If your party is putting up someone who's terrible, don't vote for them.
If the divisions are what worries you, remember that it takes two sides to make a peace and only one side to make a war. And when there is a war, "right" depends on which side you are on.
Sean, from what I have been able to observe, the Republicans always do exactly as you suggest, "sitting on their hands" and election time in response to any failing whatsoever, real or imagined, and their candidate. Democrats, on the other hand, will always vote for the Democrat, almost regardless of any failings, no matter how well known. I don't know which side of that should be changed first.
Republicans control all three branches of government. It doesn't really take two sides to get things done.
As for deal making, that's something I have grown weary of, that's too much a part of the swamp we would all like to see drained. I just have lost interest in trying to negotiate people into doing what's right, particularly where the interests of children are concerned.
--Hiram
"Sean, from what I have been able to observe, the Republicans always do exactly as you suggest, "sitting on their hands" and election time in response to any failing whatsoever, real or imagined, and their candidate. Democrats, on the other hand, will always vote for the Democrat, almost regardless of any failings, no matter how well known."
I don't think electoral history bears that out at all. The 2016 election, for instance, saw Trump win in large part because major portions of the Democratic base stayed home. For instance, Trump won Wisconsin even though he earned fewer votes there than Romney did in 2012.
There's also the time-honored tradition of the Democratic base staying home for midterm elections.
The President who was spanked with a copy of Forbes by the porn star with whom he had adulterous, unprotected sex 4 months after his 3rd wife gave birth now wants to allow "Christian" doctors and nurses to deny healthcare to LGBT people because they disapprove of that lifestyle. The President who asked for a bipartisan immigration compromise who then rejected it when it was brought to him is now bemoaning why Democrats won't just give him what he wants.
Who here voted for that guy? Maybe those are the people who should start looking in the mirror before bemoaning the state of Washington.
I guess I am not bemoaning the state of Washington.
I think this problem lies much closer to home for many of us.
"I am not bemoaning the state of Washington."
The title of this post is "Washington is Broken".
Oops... It was supposed to be “Washington is Broken?”
It is amusing that everyone keeps asking "Who will get blamed for the shutdown?" when we all know the answer...
The GOP voters will blame the DEMs...
The DEM voters will blame the GOP...
What I am curious about is:
Are the GOP voters happy with their politicians contributing to the shutdown?
Are the DEM voters happy with their politicians contributing to the shutdown?
Oh No !!! I forgot !!! The DEM and GOP voters see their party as a victim of "that irrational other side".
People are so amusing. :-)
I think the GOP base doesn't like government and is happy with the shutdown.
Virtually all Democratic voters believe they aren't in power in Washington and feel they are not responsible for the shutdown. I certainly think that myself.
I don't think of ourselves as the victim of the other side. The shutdown isn't something Republicans are doing to Democrats. It's something they are doing to the American people.
Is the shutdown irrational? That's hard to say because I don't know what the goals are or, rather, the goals are varied and inconsistent.
--Hiram
Republicans are struggling today with their fundamental paradox. They believe government is inept and incompetent. They also committed to logic, something they love to talk about at great length, I have found. Well logic does have it's downside. In this instance if, once in power, Republicans govern competently and well, they undermine their fundamental reason for being, the very thing that drives their view of the world. This, as much as anything, helps to explain why a party that campaigns so well, governs so badly.
--Hiram
Personally I think it is silly the the DEMs are focusing their argument so much on DACA. I think they should lead their blame of the GOP with.
Continuing resolutions damage our military and national defense. I mean Mattis gave them that cover just this week.
Once again your comment about who will be blamed for the shut down is off base.
More Americans blame Republicans than Democrats for potential government shutdown, Post-ABC poll finds
20% more people blame the GOP
I just looked up history of got shut downs
A history of government shutdowns
I am going to guess (as I really have no idea) that this shut down will be relatively long, like 2 weeks or more
Personally I think it is silly the the DEMs are focusing their argument so much on DACA
Fox News is saying we are scoring political points by doing it. I have my doubts.
--Hiram
I guess I heard an argument that seemed correct to me... The GOP isn't too interested in the opinions of the urban voters since they are pretty much one party voters as we know.
The GOP is much more concerned regarding the opinions or rural and suburban voters. So to really know the impact we would need to know what those folks are thinking.
Thank heavens for Congressional Districts...
Laurie's WAPO Poll Details
Just a thought, something seems very suspect in the data when 40% claim they are independents.
From the link. Who is to blame.
Trump and Republicans in Congress 48%
The Democrats in Congress 28%
Both equally 18%
Neither 1%
No opinion 5%
That seems closer to what I see as the political distribution in the USA
Liberals: 45%
Moderates: 20%
Conservative 35%
once again you are wrong:
Independents outnumber either Democrats or Republicans. A Pew Research Center analysis that examined partisan affiliation from 1992 to 2014 found that, in 2014, 39% of the public identified as independents, which was larger than the shares calling themselves Democrats (32%) or Republicans (23%).
Please note that I use liberals, moderates and conservatives for a reason.
Do you really think 40 % of voters split their vote between dem and gop?
The GOP is much more concerned regarding the opinions or rural and suburban voters.
It depends, in ways that tell us about how our constitution works. House districts are gerrymandered to such an extent that as between the two parties, very few of them are competitive. So the average congressman doesn't have to worry about the other party and it's voters. But consequences have a nasty way of being unintended and so while congress people don't have to worry about general elections, they are constant threat from primaries. This pressure tends to push them away from the political center, which is why extreme positions are characteristic of the house. It also helps to explain why the house as a whole is unpopular. The senate on the other hand is elected by state voters. It is never gerrymandered, and it's members are much more vulnerable to general election defeat. That pushes them to the center. A somewhat countervailing tendency is that the senate as a whole is gerrymandered to the advantage of small states. Alaska, where no one lives, has the same number of senators as Texas where quite a lot of people live.
As a rule, Republicans don't really care much about the interests of rural voters themselves because they have found that identifying with them on social issues, they can get their votes. Republicans primarily server the interests of their donors. Just the other day, the Minnesota Republican chair arranged a system of compensation whereby she receives 10 percent of money donated to the party. The point of this arrangement is that it aligns her interest with the donors, not those rural voters who give them their majorities. That as much as anything, reveals the structure of Republican party governance.
--Hiram
you are so funny how highly you esteem your own views and disregard facts- such as linking to your own blog post as evidence for this :
Liberals: 45%
Moderates: 20%
Conservative 35%
here the actual facts regarding ideology according to gallop:
Liberals: 25%
Conservative 36%
Moderates: 34%
And what does ideology have even the faintest to do with what is good for the country? Is it really in the national interest to NOT pay the troops while we grant citizenship to a few illegals who may or may not contribute anything to our society?
Gallup Political Distribution
Hiram,
Here is something that you seem to have neglected to mention. Apparently the MN DEM Chair does not receive commission, however their base pay is almost twice that of the GOP Chair. The concept of pay for performance does seem aligned with the GOP philosophy...
As compared to the DEM philosophy of pay them a lot whether they perform or not... :-)
Jerry,
I don't think you are going to find any sympathetic ears here. Trump and the GOP screwed the pooch this time. They were supposed to have a budget and CHIP passed last year. And just shoving it out another 4 weeks is NOT responsible governance or leadership.
Laurie,
Here is an interesting link. PEW American Politics
Look at the graph labelled Generation gap in partisan affiliation.
"To be clear, not all of America is divided into these hostile camps. Even as partisan polarization has deepened, more Americans are choosing to eschew party labels. This group is heavily populated by the young, many of whom are turned off by the cage match of modern politics. They are America’s most liberal generation by far, but when asked to name their party, nearly half say they are independents. No generation in history has ever been so allergic to a party label."
I think the graphs on the Right side support my perception of reality. People are hesitant to self identify with parties and love to consider themselves independent. However when push comes to shove more of them lean DEM in all age groups.
Now if you stop and really think about it do these seem correct?
Liberals: 25%
Moderates: 34%
Conservative 36%
Besides the fact that they don't even add up to 100%...
If so, how do you think Hillary more votes than Trump?
Using the PEW leaning chart they would be.
Liberals: ~48%
Moderates: ~14%
Conservative ~38%
That makes a lot more sense given the way national elections have been turning our over the last 20 years.
Can you really think of 14 people out of 100 who vote for a mixture of DEMs and GOPs? (ie truly Independent)
I can not.
half of my family are moderates who vote for democrats.
this whole subtopic started with me making the pt that as of right now significantly more people blame the GOP for the shut down. That may change if dems continue to hold out for movement on DACA to get their vote on a budget bill.
I think people care more about ending the shutdown than sticking up for the dreamers.
I don't really think it's a question of blame as such. I think it's just the fact that Trump has a difficult negotiator style of negotiation. He isn't and doesn't want to be the sort of negotiator who reaches a deal easily. So he bobs and weaves a lot, moves forward and pulls back. He wants to irritate the other side, and tire them out in hope of getting a better deal. I am not saying whether this is good or bad, but it's not a style that places a high value in getting deals done on time.
--Hiram
Laurie,
From my opinion, they are not moderates if they only vote for Democrats...
As the PEW graphs show, they may feel better self identifying as "independent"... However their consistent actions show them in reality to to be Democrats / Liberals.
I like to think of myself as an independent, however we all know that I am slightly Conservative. However I have voted for a Democrat before.
Laurie,
I have noted that the Left leaning publications agree with you that most Americans blame the GOP.
Whereas this CNN Poll Shows it Differently
Democrats in Congress 31%
GOP in Congress 26%
President Trump 21%
All of them 10%
I agree with these results.
What a clown show. The Democrats have us all running around trying to fix the blame, when what they should be doing is to fix the problem. The latest news report is not encouraging, saying something to the effect that how long the shutdown lasts depends on "what the Democrats want." If I was Mitch McConnell, I would bring the previous proposal back, MINUS some of the concessions already made to Democrats. In other words, the longer they obstruct the worse the "deal" they will get. And I would make absolutely certain that the term "Schumer Shutdown" became standard nomenclature.
"Here is something that you seem to have neglected to mention. Apparently the MN DEM Chair does not receive commission, however their base pay is almost twice that of the GOP Chair."
The GOP Chair asked for a salary of $66,000, and was given a salary of $67,000 under her original deal. (It should also be pointed out that under the leadership of the current MN DFL chair, the party hasn't lost a statewide election.)
according to your CNN poll 47% blame the GOP and 31% blame the dems. To me that difference is significant you really seem to be having a hard time understanding poll data lately.
also I don't think moderate means the same as independent. An independent might be a libertarian or a communist, neither or which are very moderate.I think many independents are low knowledge voters or they would lean towards one party or the other. Or I could call myself independent if I really didn't like the dem party but voted for them anyway as they are better than the GOP
Laurie,I think you have just presented a good case for why we have a representative republic rather than a direct democracy. Heaven help us if we (to a greater degree than we already do) govern ourselves by opinion polls. We've all seen them, the polls that show that the great bulk of us are fools. One recent one got high agreement with the details of the "Sanders tax plan," only to be told, after the fact, that it was actually the Trump tax plan. If you could actually pin people down and explain on what basis they held their opinion, I think you would find a very high percentage who did not have enough information to come to a conclusion, and that is putting it politely. I would call these people "moderates."
"Independents" are supposedly making sound, informed judgments about issues and candidates. Jesse Ventura was an independent. QED.
"Independents" are supposedly making sound, informed judgments about issues and candidates
I think the opposite is true. Independents are people who haven't been able to make up their minds about things. In Minnesota they are the one who vote for candidates with Swedish names.
--Hiram
Laurie,
So you want to just add the Executive and Legislative blame together?
It seems that those are very different things.
Democrats in Congress 31%
GOP in Congress 26%
President Trump 21%
All of them 10%
I still love the all of them answer...
Hiram, I think you may be right. See if these definitions appeal to you: moderates are those who don't have enough information to make a decision and want to make a virtue out of it. Independents are those who want to make a virtue of not having enough information but making a decision anyway.
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