Thursday, January 11, 2018

Women Denounce Me Too Hysteria

Thankfully here are some women acting as the voice of reason regarding this sensitive topic...  And of course others will try to shout them down...  Thoughts?


CNN CD Denounces
NPR 100 Say Me Too Has Gone Too Far
Ind Men Should Be "free to hit on" Women 

24 comments:

Sean said...

Feel free to move to France so you can grope away.

John said...

For better or worse my flirting, teasing and propositioning days are long behind me...

And with this hysteria in place, I am kind of happy I am off the market.

I do feel kind of sorry for attractive young women of modest skill and loose morals... If this continues how will they get good jobs? The men in power will be terrified to be bought off with a mutual beneficial fling. :-)

Band members will be terrified to party with women groupies... What is our society coming to?

Sean said...

I personally don't find this situation to be something worth joking about.

Laurie said...

Why would you need to do "flirting, teasing and propositioning" on the job?


Wouldn't it be more appropriate to do these things outside the work environment?

as for band members - in my family we discussed that perhaps they should just get signed consent forms to protect themselves - although that is really a different topic and has nothing to do with sexual harassment in the work place.

lastly, as a father of three daughters I am surprised that you take the possibility of their being sexually harassed on the job so lightly.

John said...

Sorry folks, I am apparently not as much of puritanical prude as some others here.

As for some boss trying to hit on one of my daughters, I really am not concerned and fear more for him than them. All of them have great self esteem and can be very disagreeable when pushed. And they have a strong support system in Mom and Dad...

Men and Women all over the country and world have a choice as to how much grief and risk they want to put up with from their Supervisor or potential Supervisor. Be it working in a coal mine, working at a strip club, working for a belittling jerk, being pressured to work excessive hours, wearing a goofy costume, etc.

I agree with the French women... This is getting out of hand when Men are terminated with very little in the way of due process.

If you think your boss is a jerk, quit and complain on glass door like normal people do...

Laurie said...

which is more likely to be a problem in the workplace - women being harassed on the job or men being falsely accused and fired for allegedly harassing women. to my mind the answer is very clear.

Is it possible that a man could be accused and fired with inadequate due process - yes, but I think this would be a rare occurrence and is not a reason to dismiss complaints and expect women just to deal with it. I think it may be more likely the women making a complaint gets fired.

I think HR is capable of handling this issue. From what I have read the balance to me is that they need to take women's complaints more seriously and men are not being treated unfairly.

It seems to me that it should not be that difficult to interact professionally on the job and save the flirting / harassing for after hours. In the many school settings I have worked sexual harassment has never been an issue I have witnessed or heard about

John said...

Laurie,
In the past year or so 2 of my peers (older pretty mellow white professionals) have been walked out the door because someone felt harassed in some way. (no details ever given) The pendulum has swung so far Left / political correct that I think companies are using it as a method to terminate older men with cause...

It is a great way to avoid age discrimination law suits, etc.

Please note that most of the celebrities who have been fired were not in the workplace when the flirting and pass occurred.

John said...



INC How to Avoid Allegations

There are 1000s of professionals out there right now that are one Tweet or blog post away from having their careers ruined. Do they deserve it? Yes. However, I also believe there are millions more out there who haven't made a mistake - yet. But, without the right coaching, could become the next Harvey Weinstein and ruin their lives. These are the people I want to help.

As former HR executive and a career coach, let me tell you what happens when you get accused of sexual harassment and you AREN'T famous...

Over the years, I've had over a dozen people come to me after losing their jobs due to a sexual harassment claim. Men AND women. This is what you can expect:

Immediate termination of your employment to avoid a lawsuit against the company.

•"Not eligible for rehire," is all they say on a reference check when potential new employers call to verify your previous employment.

•There's no clear way to answer, "Why did you leave your last job?" because when you say there were claims of sexual harassment, nobody will hire you.

•Total humiliation when you explain why you lost your job to your significant other, kids, friends and extended family.

John said...

And another piece from your friends at WAPO

"One of their big concerns is how to respond in an age of social media. "If you have a very public allegation that somebody in your organization has engaged in sexual harassment or other inappropriate behavior, companies are panicking about how to deal with it," she said. "Waiting around for a week or two to do a thorough investigation is probably not going to satisfy constituents."

As a result, she says, some companies are jumping to termination decisions quickly: "They are between a rock and a hard place, and many are opting to just get rid of the person." Less than 48 hours passed between when NBC News chairman Andy Lack said the network received a detailed complaint from an employee alleging inappropriate sexual behavior by "Today" host Matt Lauer and the announcement of Lauer's termination."

And even less for my co-workers...

John said...

I just had an interesting thought... I wonder how long it would take to fire a tenured teacher for conducting unappreciated flirting with a peer?

Sean said...

"If you think your boss is a jerk, quit"

Yes, of course the answer to bad behavior by men is for the women to leave.

"The pendulum has swung so far Left / political correct that I think companies are using it as a method to terminate older men with cause... "

In Appelen-world, I guess "at-will" employment is only for NFL players and people with natural African-American hair. When they start coming for handsy white guys, it's gone too far.

John said...

It is also good advice to men when a woman participates in "bad behavior".

Now I think you have hit the nail on the head... How will we define and quantify "bad behavior"?

When 2 employees have a difference of opinion, do we just arbitrarily fire the one who was accused of not being politically correct?

When I was initially trained regarding this type of topic as an employee and supervisor at a fortune 100 company, the process made sense:
1. Employee 1 does / says something.
2. Employee 2 asks them to stop.
3. Employee 1 does it again.
4. Employee 2 notifies Mgr or HR.
5. Employee 1 get reprimand / warning / training
6. Employee 1 does it again.
7. Employees 1 is walked out the door.

Now it seems the current process is.
1. Employee 1 does / says something.
2. Employee 2 notifies Mgr or HR.
3. Employees 1 is walked out the door.

John said...

Now I am more than happy to see "bad behavior", lazy and/or incompetent people fired. Unfortunately we seem to be busy throwing the babies out with the bath water.

As for NFL players, please note that I recommend the 7 step process for them also.

So what is your answer to my other question?

I wonder how long it would take to fire a tenured teacher for conducting unappreciated flirting with a peer?

Can we start using the 3 step process there, that may due wonders for school performance and Teacher motivation.

Sean said...

"Now it seems the current process is."

You (or I) have no idea what's going on behind the scenes.

John said...

I agree with her...

"Waiting around for a week or two to do a thorough investigation is probably not going to satisfy constituents." As a result, she says, some companies are jumping to termination decisions quickly: "They are between a rock and a hard place, and many are opting to just get rid of the person."

Since Liberals often complain that companies are too business / profit centric and willing to sacrifice the well being of employees at times. Do you really think they are going hesitate 2 seconds when it comes to one middle aged male employee in this current environment?

Sean said...

"Do you really think they are going hesitate 2 seconds when it comes to one middle aged male employee in this current environment?"

That's a decision they have to make.

Again, I come back to why is this a problem only now? When at-will employment targeted other types of folks, you defended it. But when middle-aged male employees who are the subject of sexual harassment allegations are on the line, now you're all upset about it? I think you have some internalizing you need to do on this issue.

John said...

As I noted above, I support and have supported the 7 step process in all but the most serious / blatant cases.

It seems to be Liberals who want to vary the rules as fits their sensitivities.

Sean said...

"It seems to be Liberals who want to vary the rules as fits their sensitivities."

How so, specifically?

John said...

Sean,
Oh come now... Just think of the number of procedural protections that Liberals feel need to be in place for Teachers and Other Union employees... I mean they make my 7 step process seem short by comparison.

And then there were all the Liberals who were against firing football players even after their employer had clearly explained that their behaviors were not acceptable.

However now folks like yourself are ardently supporting the 3 step process I have noted above.

Here is a good test... What process should be followed with her? 7 step or 3 step?

Sean said...

"Just think of the number of procedural protections that Liberals feel need to be in place for Teachers and Other Union employees"

Union employees have a contract that dictates said process.

"Liberals who were against firing football players even after their employer had clearly explained that their behaviors were not acceptable."

Sure, we felt that firing football players for such activities was a poor decision. But we never denied that they had the legal right to do so.

"What process should be followed with her?"

I believe WaPo journalists are unionized, so their contract would dictate the disposition of her case.

Sean said...

"However now folks like yourself are ardently supporting the 3 step process I have noted above."

That's a distortion of my position.

At-will employers can do as at-will employers want to do, within the bounds of the law. I can agree or disagree with their decisions in particular cases, but I don't deny they have the legal right to do so.

Sean said...

Whoops.

A lawyer for President Donald Trump arranged a $130,000 payment to a former adult-film star a month before the 2016 election as part of an agreement that precluded her from publicly discussing an alleged sexual encounter with Mr. Trump, according to people familiar with the matter.

WSJ: Trump Lawyer Arranged $130,000 Payment for Adult-Film Star’s Silence

Sean said...

Why is the above important other than the tabloid appeal? Because -- assuming the WSJ is correct -- such payments by politicians in the past (think John Edwards and John Ensign) have been done illegally, which could be another avenue for the Mueller investigation to go down.

John said...

Didn’t they get in trouble because they used campaign funds or something.