For the Civil Unrest. Really? Blame the Teachers for people who are obsessed with their own reality? People who obsess about their "news" sources, their "social media feed", their "real" news, etc? Really?
A friend shared this on FB and I felt an intense urge to reply.
I'll bite, how would this have helped prevent the mess at the capitol?
I am pretty sure most people understand clearly that we have:
- a Presidential election every 4 years in November
- the winner is the individual that gets 270 electoral votes
- the states are in charge of their system and counting the votes
- courts determine if any foul play occurred
- states submit their final tallies in mid Dec (ie winner named)
- Congress officially certifies the results in early January (ie ceremonial step)
On the other hand I guess there is one man who does not seem to know this... 🙂
Maybe he had a poor education?
A candidate won by 4 states and ~7 Million votes, and still many people question this reality. I don't think a civics class is going to help with this. Especially since many of the folks denying this reality went to school 30+ years ago.
Thoughts?
42 comments:
Look into the proposed new social studies standards before making your judgment.
This makes so little sense that I wonder if it is more of a distraction. Don’t think about how she has been spending the last few months, get into a debate about education.
WLP,
That does seem to be the GOP mantra lately.
Remember when Trump would always blame someone else whenever he screwed up.
I don't think he ever took responsibility when things went South.
And I almost scared to update these numbers again. Kristi's policies adding 720 dead South Dakotans to the count was bad enough.
Jerry,
I am almost scare to ask, but please elaborate.
And as I noted, only the Trump Supporters are working to disrupt the transition process. Are you saying that they failed Civics 101?
Oh come now, asking Jerry to elaborate? He doesn't have anything. Never does. He heard a thing on Newsmax or read a meme on bookface and then its gospel. Facts and support just slow us down.
Republicans are dazed and in a state of denial. With their self image of moralism and righewoness, they haven't yet comprehended that they are the bad guys.
--Hiram
I think Jerry actually is involved in his community politics.
So I am interested in his perspective, even if often it seems very incorrect.
"I am almost scare to ask, but please elaborate."
The depth of ignorance displayed here, accidental or willful, is absolutely astounding. It is as if you are not paying attention. Pretty sure the comment section or public hearing information is up on the DOE website. If not, they are trying to hide it and only the people who ARE paying attention are calling out this massive PC indoctrination effort.
Well this is Noem's proposal. Apparently she wants politics in the classroom. :-O
These folks do not think much of Noem's plan
So am I curious...
Do you think our kid's should only learn about the "good things" in Americas History?
or
Should they learn about the Good, Bad and Ugly?
Fascinating. You are concerned about Gov. Noem of SD, mischaracterize her proposals, side with her obvious political opponents and against common sense and, in fact, most of American history. You remain completely ignorant, it seems, of the intent to take Minnesota education FAR, FAR to the left, beyond all reason. Teach the good, bad, and ugly, sure, in proper proportion. What MN is trying to do is to eliminate the good from all instruction. Just a wild guess but by the time they are through, we will not have fought WWII against the Nazis, we will BE the Nazis.
Jerry,
I am pretty sure the Nazis will always be the bad guys. I mean that is why they compare Trump and his followers to them.
So should the following be taught with as much zest as the "good stuff"?
Columbus tortured and killed 1000s of natives because he saw them as heathens.
Half of our founding Fathers were slave owners and we allowed slavery / torture to exists for ~90 years.
Then we allowed racism / unequal rights for the next ~100 years, and still struggle with it today.
Not to mention our taking the best land from the Native Americans, forcing them onto the worst land, and / or killing them.
Then there was also our manipulations South of the Border.
So, should the following be taught along WITH all of those things you cite:
Revolutionary War, causes, battles, outcomes, heroes and villains
War of 1812 ditto
Civil War, ditto
WWI ditto
WW2 ditto
Korean War ditto
Vietnam War ditto
OR, or you content to have all of these simply erased from our history teaching, except for the evils the US perpetrated before, during and after? Since you obviously haven't bothered to look up the proposed standards, my characterization is at least as likely as yours.
I am happy to have the good, the bad and the ugly taught.
When you provide a source link, I will review the material.
With the modern GOP I think it would be extremely difficult to be a high school civics teacher and try not to have a bias against the GOP. Is it ok for a civics teacher to teach about the big lie?
I doubt it.
They don't even want to acknowledge how White folks used and stole wealth from Black folks for centuries. :-(
Laurie, is it OK for a civics teacher to TEACH the Big Lie? That is what the new standards seem to be about. Propaganda is as much about what is NOT taught as what is taught.
John, if you cannot find any reference to these new social studies standards in MN, I worry about your ability to find /anything/ contrary to your preconceived notions. And as for "stealing wealth from Black folks" I think you have already bought, contrary to common sense, the Big Lie, because Black folks never had anything worth stealing, other than their labor. After emancipation, they were not often allowed to accumulate wealth, thanks mostly to Democrats.
All I am asking is that history be taught as it occurred, with a proper emphasis on what was important. Why are you SO opposed to that? Other than as a footnote, do I care that Trump had the first openly gay cabinet member?
Jerry,
You are such a hypocrite some of the time... You often bemoan excess taxation and government service mandates as stealing wealth / slavery. And yet want to down play the MASSIVE THEFT due to slavery and racist laws?
Where would we be if our Great Grand Parents had not been paid for their labor? If they had not had access to land ownership, mortgages, the GI Bill, etc?
You made the claims, you provide the source...
Look around and use common sense. Nobody can steal wealth from people who never had it. Sure, under slavery only the slave-owners (including some black folks) got rich from the labor of others. Most of them were Democrats, and today Democrats are still enriching themselves by taxing the labor of others (last I looked, 9 of 10 richest Senators were Dems, and how much has Joe Biden's family accumulated). Same result, different mechanism. Fact: Donald Trump brought more black families out of poverty than any Democrat. The effect of Democrat-driven welfare is to KEEP black families from forming and therefore IN poverty. The Democrat-driven mobs burned BLACK businesses in Minneapolis, and the victims of that crazy Democrat-driven "defund the police" madness are almost all black.
You seem unwilling to cope with the reality that slavery WAS abolished 150 years ago by Lincoln, a Republican. That the Civil Rights Act was passed by Republicans in Congress. That "40 acres and a mule" was never realized as a start of capital formation for blacks. That access to mortgages granted by Obama and company led to lending to people who couldn't afford them and the loss of homes (and capital) that resulted. That the GI bill (I believe) made no such distinctions, but that the terrible achievement gap produced by our public schools persists today and denies many black children access to the benefits of a good education. At every turn, it seems, Democrat-run government "help" creates more problems than it solves. So, your solution is to concentrate that education on meaningless things like long-past grievances and irrelevant distinctions among Americans?
You really need to study history closer
Just last night I learned that Poll Taxes were in force until 1966.
And you refuse to answer my questions and face reality.
Where would we be if our Great Grand Parents had not been paid for their labor? If they had not had access to land ownership, mortgages, the GI Bill, etc?
Now I am not a fan of reparations, but I do support acknowledging truth. Our ancestors did some terrible things. Hopefully we face them honestly and learn to be better.
There you have it. "our ancestors did some terrible things." Fine. Our ancestors did many more GREAT things. Let's teach the whole of our history in proportion and in context. You should not be slinging accusations about the teaching of history when you obviously know nothing about the proposed MN Social Studies standards.
And "poll taxes were in force until 1966"? And then what? They ended, right? Do we teach their imposition by Democrats, or their removal by Republicans? Or teach both as politically-neutral fact?
No...we teach the truth, that they were implemented and supported by KKK sympathizers, who are now nearly exclusively Republican.
Moose
BS.
Jerry,
I am not a big fan of their enabling entitlement and defending poor schools, but their is NO DOUBT that most White Supremacy folks vote Republican.
Or that Republicans are doing everything they can to make it harder for poor minority citizens to vote.
As for MN Social Studies Stds
What again is wrong with these?
I'm just wading through this preliminary 115-page document. I find this, for second graders:
"1.2.1: Demonstrate voting skills, identify rules that keep a voting process fair, and explain why voting is important."
Yet somehow our adult elected officials in Minnesota seem not to understand it.
Then this core NON-scientific goal:
"16. Evaluate the relationship between humans and the environment including climate change."
I've stopped reading at page 12 of the actual standards proposal, because it is obvious that not only are specific pieces of US history missing, but the entirety of it. All in favor of "Develop and demonstrate civic values..." It's PC claptrap, top to bottom. Covered in educratese. What do we call these classes? It isn't "economics" or "history" or "geography" in any meaningful sense. It's the "new math" idea applied to social studies.
Then this core NON-scientific goal:
"16. Evaluate the relationship between humans and the environment including climate change."
Make up your damn mind. Are they Science or History requirements.
Moose
"It isn't "economics" or "history" or "geography" in any meaningful sense. It's the "new math" idea applied to social studies."
Must not be white enough. Perhaps the (now defunct) 1776 report is more your speed.
Moose
Well it seems okay to me.
I assume you would like to paint the White man as the hero who conquered the Indians, Blacks, Nature, etc... And not discuss the damage he inflicted in the process...
The many deaths, rapes, lynchings, diseases, displacements to reservations, etc.
Then there was pre-1970 pollution and environmental destruction.
Unfortunately we own all of it. The hero and villain parts...
Is the cause of the Dust Bowl Science or History? Farming practices were a major cause.
Or perhaps you deny that fact as well.
Moose
This was informative
Thanks, John-
Now let's look at this again:
"16. Evaluate the relationship between humans and the environment including climate change."
How is it not History as well as Science?
Moose
Makes sense to me..
Or the Impact of Dams?
Seems like some excellent critical thinking material.
The people behind the 1776 commission report don't want people to think critically. And so it is with jerry.
Moose
The history experts seem to agree
Though I just skimmed it, the report is good and bad like most documents.
Sometime Americans do spend too much time focused on mistakes...
So the Dust Bowl was caused by a combination of natural and government-made disasters. Teach that.
And I see it again and again, that we are going to teach "critical thinking." I even did a segment on it in one of the classes I taught, but here's "the thing" (TM Joe Biden). The key to critical thinking is having multiple sources of information and experience. Kids don't have it. They are in the "information gathering" phase of their education and should be accumulating some basic knowledge from multiple sources-- the Dust Bowl as historic fact, the economics of the Great Depression, the government policy decisions that exacerbated the Dust Bowl and the Depression, and maybe even the social impacts found in literature like The Grapes of Wrath. You don't see any of that in the new standards, do you?
Maybe John is right on this one thing: that the new standards focus on the "mistakes" (actually portrayed as sins) while showing no interest on mistakes corrected. We don't lynch black people anymore, except for the "high-tech lynching" of Justice Thomas or the current "cancel culture." We passed the civil rights act and the voting rights act. The new standards appear to want to create a grievance culture in our youth, rather than a positive foundation for educational, economic and civic success.
The curriculum seems to cover the good and bad, and let's the kids form their views further. And for better or worse their parents will determine if they are Liberal, Conservative, Racist, etc... Not the schools.
I mean the result of the poor land management practices was a mass migration further west. The problem and the fix.
I am always amazed at how both tribes seem to think the other wants to damage America?
I guess I have yet to meet someone out to harm our country...
Here is the difference between "the two sides." Liberals demand we all live in a fantasy world of their own devising, and that government can simply rescind, by fiat, the laws of chemistry, physics, economics and human nature. Conservatives recognize that having government protect us from others but otherwise letting us run our own lives is the route to human happiness and prosperity. liberal fantasy vs. conservative reality. It's a tough sell. Give the kids the information and let them think. Don't force-feed them What to think.
This does not seem like the Jerry I know. The one who preaches:
- humans do not impact the climate
- abstinence is the best birth control
- LGBT folks should be treated differently than others
- etc
Personally I think Conservatives are more likely to preach than Liberals. I mean often Liberals disagree about most things.
OK, you win. Humans have a NEGLIGIBLE impact on the climate, that is the reality. Claiming that manmade CO2 is the global thermostat is the fantasy.
Abstinence is unquestionably the most effective birth control. Everything else has some percentage, however small, of "failure." That is reality, deny it all you want. Of course the liberal fantasy is that you can have all the sex you want, with anybody you want-- "free love"-- without consequence of any kind.
And liberals would LOVE to pursue the fantastic world in which "social norming" did not exist, so that no morality exists beyond what they consider moral at the moment they do something-- moral relativism at the expense of cohesion in society.
As for "preaching," Conservatives occasionally say something is "wrong." Liberals say /conservatives/ are wrong, loudly, and must be punished for it. Look around, and convince me otherwise.
"Abstinence is unquestionably the most effective birth control."
And is less likely to be used than other forms of birth control...so...doesn't sound very effective to me.
"convince me otherwise"
People who consider themselves conservative literally attacked the nation's capitol with the stated intent of killing members of Congress. So...liberals want to punish? Okay, but conservatives want to kill. Sounds even.
Moose
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