that Trump is Terrible for the USA. And normal citizens still keep giving him their hard earned money...
Liz Cheney seems much smarter and more capable than most of the other spineless GOP politicians.
Well maybe people will actually start to understand Trump better? As Trump continues his false claims.
90 comments:
False? Proof, please.
Jerry,
If you still think Trump was or is good for the USA, there is nothing I can provide that you will convince you otherwise.
I am just happy that Joe Rogan does not support Trump.
This summarizes some of Trump's flaws.
"Never before have we had a president who schemed to overturn legitimate election results, who attacked the press and the civil servants who worked for him, who admired dictators, who blatantly profited from his public office and who repeatedly lied to the public for his own selfish purposes. But while Trump’s four years of rhetoric have been a shock to democratic norms, did they inflict permanent damage on our democracy? My answer is a qualified no. The guardrails of democracy held. The institutions designed to check autocracy are intact."
And don't forget what he did to the national debt... OMG
Then there was his contributing to a LOT conservatives by making COVID and vaccines a political issue.
Of course this was after he told everyone COVID will not come to the USA.
You missed the point. "overturn legitimate election results" Proof, please, that the election was legitimate. If you can't, your entire thesis falls apart.
Jerry,
If you do not believe the:
- legislatures in every State
- Attorney General Bill Barr
- dozens of court rulings
- the US Congress
- multiple audits and recounts
- etc
There is no way I can sway you from your delusions.
It is disappointing how people like yourself seek to weaken faith in our election and political systems. :-(
I would like to hear specifically what "court rulings" and "audits" prove that the election was without taint. Especially since the SCOWI just ruled drop boxes illegal, and by extension every ballot put into them. And the recent movie "2000 mules" proving conclusively that hundreds of thousands of ballots were fraudulently "harvested."
And I am disappointed that people like you-- you specifically-- are perfectly happy to pretend that election cheating does not and cannot happen, just so your preferred candidates can continue to win by outrageous cheating. Who is undermining faith in the system, those who are cheating, or those calling out the cheating?
Please feel free to stay in your delusional world.
I'll stay here and support the USA's elections personnel, courts, legislatures, Justice dept, etc.
Please remember that the election was not even close... 4 more states and 7+ million more voters chose the honest dedicated public servant... Not the self serving lying debt driving narcissist...
I repeat "And I am disappointed that people like you-- you specifically-- are perfectly happy to pretend that election cheating does not and cannot happen, just so your preferred candidates can continue to win by outrageous cheating. Who is undermining faith in the system, those who are cheating, or those calling out the cheating?"
I may be delusional, but you are simply denying all reality. We KNOW (so should you, absent a WILLFUL blindness) that the election system has many, many loopholes, including the dropboxes WI found illegal, and the documentary clearly shows how they were used, probably to the extent of at LEAST 200,000 votes, driven by left-leaning organizations (so they were Biden votes), in the 5 key states that would have made Trump the winner by a large margin.
Oh, and if you think Biden has been "good for the USA" I suggest you seek immediate psychiatric help.
Jerry,
Again you are incorrect. I have repeatedly noted that:
- a miniscule amount of cheating takes place
- it is done by members of both parties
- though usually it seems to be rural GOPers
- to eliminate all cheating is likely impossible, and the terrible side effect is to make it harder for citizens to vote
- especially for the poor, young, old, homeless and highly mobility citizens
Now I understand that you support making it harder for those citizens to vote, because that helps your candidates. You would probably reinstitute poll taxes and intelligence tests if you could.
The courts and legislatures were very clear.
- the election was legal and binding
- Biden won by 4 states and ~7.5 MILLION votes
I really am not sure what you would like Biden to do differently?
I mean Trump starved the USA of Tax Revenue, Trump spent ~4 Trillion on stimulus, much of which got squandered, and Biden spent $1 Trillion that went to poor households with kids.
I would say that Trump is mostly responsible for our country being awash in borrowed government money.
Maybe you want Biden to raise taxes to get some of that money back to help pay down the debt?
I would support that !!!
Trump Waste 1
Trump Waste 2
Trump Waste 3
Here are some fundamentals about elections.
Voters are entitled to rely on the rules when casting their vote. That means their vote counts even if the rule are at some later point questioned.
Under no circumstances does the state have the authority discard or otherwise hold ineffective a lawfully cast ballot. In other words, the state doesn't get to throw away a ballot just because the state mishandled it.
The right to vote always includes with it, the right to have one's vote counted.
There is an underlying assumption that President Biden benefited from the changes in election rules. I question this assumption. The fact is, under these rules, Republican candidates did remarkably well. I don't hear any of them question the legitimacy of their own victories. It is also assumed that Trump was hurt by the changes. Based on who well other Republicans did under the changed rules, I suggest that Trump was helped not hurt by them as well. While Trump lost, I actually suspect that he would have lost by a lot more had the rules not been changed.
--Hiram
"Again you are incorrect. I have repeatedly noted that:..."
You have admitted only one thing, which is that you believe the many outright lies about the 2020 election.
-- a MASSIVE amount of cheating /could/ take place, and provably DID take place.
-- it was done exclusively by Democrats, for the benefit of Democrats, and to the detriment of Republicans.
-- You keep repeating that eliminating all cheating is not possible, and that is true, but you are willfully blind, deaf and ignorant to the fact that MASSIVE cheating is enabled in law and practice, Almost EXCLUSIVELY in blue conclaves.
-- And if sensible Election Integrity laws were in place, people (like in "terrible" Georgia) would have MORE faith in the election and vote in greater numbers (as they did), including those poor folks you think are too stupid to get a photo ID, free from the State. That's racist.
And let's not get sidetracked arguing whether Trump or Biden is the better President, because Biden should not be President in the first place. He benefited from a proven, massively fraudulent election, even admitting it at one point saying, "We've built the greatest election fraud organization in history." Believe it.
Jerry, you have apparently lost your mind. :-(
Hiram,
Excellent point. The GOP candidates all did great except for Trump...
And that was because he was disliked by millions of voters like myself.
A Republican who could not accept another term of that lying loser.
Too bad you didn't find it; then you would know what I, and millions of others, know for certain. As I said, you are denying reality, and substituting your own. I will ask it again. PROVE that the potential for rampant cheating did not exist in 2020.
Run him again and he will lose again.
We Republicans who value truth, transparency and the rule of law simply will not vote for him ever again.
A massive amount of cheating could take place. In the last election, one hundred and fifty million ballots were cast, and you know what? I can't prove that any of them were legal. Not one. Because I can't do that, is that a reason why I shouldn't have confidence in the election?
A secretary of state candidate suggests that we should know and have confidence that each vote is cast is legally cast. A laudable goal surely. But in a country of over three hundred million people, where a presidential term of office is only a mere four year long, how do we go about doing that?
--Hiram
-- it was done exclusively by Democrats, for the benefit of Democrats, and to the detriment of Republicans.
There is a tape out there of President Trump asking the Secretary of State of Georgia to find enough votes to give him a victory in that state. That official said no. But how many other calls were made, and on how many of those calls did the official on the other end of the line say something besides "no". To quote Birinyi, "there is never just one cockroach."
Maybe all politicians cheat. But as it happens, it's Republicans who get caught at it most frequently. My theory is that it's because they believe God is on their side and will let them off the hook.
--Hiram
This pretty well disputes Jerry opinion. :-)
"We Republicans who value truth, transparency and the rule of law ..."
B as in B, S as in S. You find ONE example of Republican fraud and decide that proves Biden's 81 million votes were all valid? How ridiculous can you be? Just in my district alone, we had 20 people over the age of 110 that cast ballots in the 2020 election. Our SOS ruled that signatures on absentee ballots were not required. We had untended drop boxes all over the state, and we have video evidence of massive "ballot harvesting" contrary to law. We have no valid "chain of custody" on huge numbers of "mail in" ballots, and Republicans were prevented from observing the counts in some MN places. We had a huge reversal of the election results about 2AM, AFTER the 12AM deadline for counting, and BEYOND the capacity of the counting machines to accomplish. Our SOS was sued to remove dead people from the rolls, but never complied. Thousands of same-day registrants could not be located after the election. Challenged voters who submitted absentee did not have to clear their challenge. Drivers licenses from states who give them to illegal immigrants were accepted as legal ID. College students are allowed to vote twice, by law, and no checks are made. Shall I go on? I guess if the results are what you want, you don't care how incredibly corrupt the process was. And it doesn't have to be.
So you are really going to say that the Russia collusion hoax and subsequent impeachment were all about "truth, transparency and the rule of law"? /Please/...
TDS, TTS, and TWS
As we have noted before...
All you have is opinions and conspiracy theories, or you / MVA would bring them to the court...
Again there are a LOT of Romney, Kasich, McCain, Cheney, etc Republicans out here who WILL NOT vote for Trump !!!! Keep supporting the crook if you wish...
But if you nominate him again... He will LOSE again...
I would vote for AOC before I would vote for Trump.
Biden's 81 million votes were all valid?
I can prove that the leader of the Republican Party attempted to defraud the American people. What I can't prove is that 150 million votes were legally cast. I can't prove any of them were legally cast. Should I have to?
--Hiram
Again, basic rule. The state can't discard or otherwise refuse to give a ballot effect because the state mishandled it. If you vote, your vote must be counted, no matter what the state does with you ballot or any other ballot.
--Hiram
"I can't prove any of them were legally cast. Should I have to?"
Absolutely. You can't accuse Trump of "defrauding the AP" until you can prove absolutely that it wasn't Biden's people that committed the fraud Trump accused them of, CORRECTLY, AFAIK. There is a fundamental problem with your logic. MY legal vote must be counted correctly, you say. But what if someone else votes in my name, or votes multiple ballots from people that do not exist at all? Every illegal ballot dilutes my choice, so how is allowing (even promoting) that a good thing?
I appreciate that you CANNOT prove that every one was legally cast, so I'll make it really, really easy for you and for John. I won't ask you to prove that the number of illegal/"improper" ballots was "miniscule." I will ask only that you prove the /possibility/ of "non-miniscule fraud" did not exist.
"All you have is opinions and conspiracy theories, or you / MVA would bring them to the court..." -- John
Read the cite. Many of these things WERE brought to court but never adjudicated on the merits. When the courts finally do act, a Soros-backed SOS refuses to comply, or "it's too late" to correct problems the court finds, like the SCOWI recently did, as was found in AZ, etc. You are grasping at some very soggy straws just to maintain your fantasy.
This has to be one of the most foolish thing you have ever written.
"You can't accuse Trump of "defrauding the AP" until you can prove absolutely that it wasn't Biden's people that committed the fraud Trump accused them of..."
On one side we have the certification of the vote by every State, the Congress, the Justice Department and the Vice President....
And on the other side we have a proven chronic liar who has no proof.
And instead of supporting the pillars of our country, you choose to support the chronic liar. Even though repeated recounts have shown no significant errors.
Next you will say we need to prove the Earth is round because some Flat Earthers still claim it is Flat.
"I can't prove any of them were legally cast. Should I have to?"
Absolutely.
Well, a 150 million ballots were cast in the last election. How to characterize the task of proving each one of them was cast legally? Somehow, even the word "monumental" doesn't seem to cover it. For one thing, there is no reason at all to think any illegally cast ballot looks any different from one that was cast legally.
The expert on fraud that I would talk to is the leader of the Republican Party, Donald Trump. He did, after all, solicit frqud. What I want to know is, what exactly did Mr. Trump have in mind? He obviously thought voter fraud was easy to commit. Why is that? Had he been involved with voter fraud in other elections? Did he have expertise in the matter which he might share with the group?
I am at a loss at how an election that was won by seven million votes could have been stolen. It was hard enough to stage the moon landing without anyone spilling the berans.
--Hiram
"This has to be one of the most foolish thing [sic] you have ever written.
'You can't accuse Trump of "defrauding the AP" until you can prove absolutely that it wasn't Biden's people that committed the fraud Trump accused them of...'"
As expected, you now wish to deny even simple logic in pursuit of your TDS. Is there even any doubt in your mind that, if you cannot PROVE Biden sympathizers did not commit fraud, and therefore Trump may have told the truth, that some 55% of the AP might disagree with you?
Remember, Biden admitted it. Joe Biden said (10/25/2020) that his campaign has put together "the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization" in American political history. Is he a liar?
Voter Fraud Factcheck
Big Lie Believers Fact Check
Maybe you meant 55% of GOPers? (ie Trump cultists)
"The May 17-19 national poll found that 53% of Republicans believe Trump, their party's nominee, is the “true president” now, compared to 3% of Democrats and 25% of all Americans.
About one-quarter of adults believe the Nov. 3 election was tainted by illegal voting, including 56% of Republicans, according to the poll. The figures were roughly the same in a poll that ran from Nov. 13-17 which found that 28% of all Americans and 59% of Republicans felt that way."
Do you truly believe this stuff you write? (55% of AP think Trump won)
Or are you just goofing?
If we don't believe in elections, is there another way we can choose our leaders?
--Hiram
it is only 52%
Yes.
Some DEMs think the GOPers cheated.
Half the GOPers think the DEMs cheated.
That does not mean that 52% THINK Trump won.
That is closer to 30 of AP... Meaning the folks who watch FOX news... :-)
Beside this being from Rasmussen and the questions being pretty blunt...
This discusses it in some detail.
The funny thing is that the disgruntled GOPers sound a LOT like the disgruntled DEMs after Trump won...
It can't be...
He had to of cheated...
The electoral college is undemocratic...
How did so many Americans become such POOR LOSERS? And WHINERS?
You are still dodging the essential question: Were there substantial opportunities to cheat in the 2020 election? And in Latin, the answer is not tu quoque, but cui bono?
I believe the answers are:
- minimal opportunities
- GOP uses them as much or more than DEMs
- making it easy for citizens to vote is important
Therefore Biden trounced Trump fair and square.
And the people who do not accept the will of the American Voters are seditious pricks who are out to undermine the USA's democracy and the country in general.
I mean just think of what you called the people who denied that Trump won in 2016...
Now you are one of them... :-)
"A survey reveals that only 49% of GOP voters say they would support Trump for a second term."
Bzzzt! Wrong! You had a fifty-fifty chance of answering the true-false correctly, and you guessed incorrectly. The question was if there was a POSSIBILITY of "improper voting" (fraud is a different thing; we've been using the term very loosely) in the 2020 collection. Any answer other than True is either a flat-out lie or colossal, perhaps deliberate, ignorance of all reality. I did not ask whether that cheating changed the outcome, or who did it, so not only were you wrong, but you actually answered the wrong question! If I had, of course, given the correct answer to the True-False, the answers to the other two questions are intuitively obvious. Who did it? The winner, obviously, since the loser did not cheat well enough to win, and who benefits (cui bono)? The winner, obviously.
Those who subverted the will of the American voters through their massive cheating, and those who are willfully blind to that possibility are the ones undermining "democracy," but I will leave the name-calling to you.
It is sad that you have so little faith in your country, it systems and its citizens unless your candidate wins. :-(
Unfortunately there is nothing I can do to help your cynical distrusting world view...
There /IS/ something you can do to help me. It is to rid yourself of the colossal, perhaps willful, ignorance of the countless and severe election integrity issues, especially in MN. From where I sit, it is impossible for anybody to have faith in an elections process with so many obvious but easily fixed opportunities for cheating. I've outlined only some of them, yet you simply dismiss them. What else would you call that except willful ignorance in pursuit of some strange ideology that says cheating SHOULD be allowed, even promoted?
Unlikely to happen... Since I do have faith in our country, it systems and its citizens !!!
And I am not a sore loser... Especially when the conspiracy theorists provide no credible evidence. I mean even Bill Barr denied your craziness. Unless now you think he is in on the conspiracy too... :-O
I feel for you, it must be exhausting thinking that everyone is out to get or cheat you.
I have a question.
President Trump, in various ways, made bad faith arguments, in order to delay a process in ways which were to his advantage.
Is that cheating?
--Hiram
--
One more time around the crazy loop, I did NOT say the election was out-and-out stolen by "improper voting." I say only that the possibility of massive EI issues exists, that they are deliberate, COULD be exploited, and in many proven cases WERE exploited to the advantage of the winner. How you can have such a blind faith in a severely flawed system is at best blinkered thinking, if not an unfounded, purely emotional response. Need I paraphrase Prof. Harold Hill again?
"Well, either you're closing your eyes
To a situation you do not wish to acknowledge
Or you are unaware of the caliber of disaster indicated
By the presence of a [broken election system] in your community."
There are always massive opportunities for cheating. Is that a reason not to get out of bed in the morning?
--Hiram
--
Again...
"Barr told the AP that U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but “to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”
And recently...
“I was somewhat demoralized, because I thought, boy, if he really believes this stuff, he has lost contact with — he’s become detached from reality if he really believes this stuff,” Barr explained in describing Trump’s continued stance on the election."
Jerry is apparently smarter than all these folks.
Or he is more paranoid and delusional them.
Do you really believe that by calling me "paranoid and delusional" that I will somehow deny KNOWN, well-established and published FACT that the potential for election cheating was widespread? I want to know how you continue to believe that these well-known facts are NOT proof of the potential for cheating? Are you delusional, or just deliberately ignorant?
Jerry,
As I have mentioned before...
It is very easy for a criminal to break into my house.
I have a window right next to my door lock.
One can break the glass and unlock the door.
Not to mention that often 1 of my 4 doors is unlocked.
And yet my home has never been robbed.
I do not feel the need to put steel bars over all the windows.
So the "potential" is not what matters. It is what has happened and what is likely to happen that matters.
Now if you want to live in a steel cage because you fear that someone may break the glass, please feel free to do so. Personally I think that indicates a very paranoid and fearful individual.
The USA's election system supports all legal qualified citizens voting, be they poor, homeless, young, old, highly mobile, etc. So it does have some intentional glass windows.
And all the folks in the link assure us that the windows are working.
Unfortunately your goal is to put up steel bars that make it much harder for these less fortunate and less informed citizens. I mean you even supported stopping apartment owners from distributing voter registration and training material. :-O
Which to me smacks of Jim Crow and voter suppression...
Such a deeply flawed analogy only shows the depth of your denial of reality. Let me try to craft something more realistic. First, a gang of criminals comes along and finds a judge to MANDATE that you leave all your doors unlocked. Then they require that any crimes against your property NOT be investigated, and accuse you of criminality or insanity if you complain that your TV, stereo, and baseball card collection are all missing, which they obviously are.
Trust in our elections system demands that we NOT have these obvious vulnerabilities, to the degree they are easily avoided and without unduly burdening legitimate voters. MN law permits, encourages and then ignores such cheating, without the corresponding safeguards necessary to reassure the public that elections are fair and honest. And anybody actually looking has all the proof they need that these vulnerabilities WERE exploited. Do not ask me to deny the truth and the reality, as you are doing. I don't care if you get robbed or not, but an improper vote cancels out mine, and that is just wrong, especially if it can be precluded by law. Why would you want that?
So now our elected representatives and courts are gangs of criminals... :-O
Oh my !!!
Well I hope we can keep "your" criminals from making it hard for the poor folks to vote... :-)
You just do not have any knowledge on this subject, do you? Riddle me this: who, in MN, unlawfully changed multiple election procedures prior to the 2020 election, making it easier for improper voting to occur?
MN Voting Court Cases
Please share what exactly was deemed "illegal"?
Maybe this about a seven day grace period? Don't think that would change the tally in favor of one party or the other.
How odd. You are asking me for information, yet you condemn me for being "paranoid and delusional" based on your complete lack of knowledge on which to base that claim. Amazing, but typical of liberal argumentation-- deny reality and disparage any hint of the truth.
Start with our hyperpartisan (DFL) Secretary of State and search from there. You should find plenty of sources; if not you are not looking.
I did look and most of the cases are found in in his favor.
And your friends at MN Voters Alliance don't have much on their website anymore.
Well other than asking for money...
This seems timely and relevant
Lost Not Stolen
Just answer the question. Failure in the courts does not mean plaintiffs were without merit, so stop using that dodge. And stop saying "there was no fraud" or finding experts that agree with you, because that isn't an answer, either. "Fraud" is a very specific term, very hard to detect and prove. "improper voting," likewise, is almost impossible to detect, and one of the big problems is that, if it is not prevented in the first place, the votes count and cannot be untangled from the corrupted total. I keep asking you to acknowledge that these improper voting pathways exist, and you keep telling me it doesn't matter if they do, somehow, that the result of a deeply flawed process nonetheless produces a flawless result. That doesn't make sense to me.
Failure in the courts does not mean plaintiffs were without merit,
Well, it's not as if Donald Trump was a poor defendant represented by a desperately overworked public defender. He was the president of the United States, quite possibly the wealthiest man ever to occupy the office with access to the best lawyers in the country. Let me just suggest that when he loses, it just might be because his case, and indeed his multiplicity of cases, were lousy.
If improper voting is impossible to detect, why do you claim to have detected it? Why do you insist that the burden is on someone else of proving something you acknowledge is impossible to prove?
--Hiram
Hiram,
Excellent questions...
Jerry,
Neither Hiram nor myself have ever said the system was perfect.
However it does do a good job of balancing security and access.
If the January 6th hearings have done nothing else, they have shown us all how difficult it is to keep conspiracies secret.
--Hiram
It is impossible to prove a ballot was fraudulently cast for one very specific reason. Fraudulently cast ballots look exactly the same as ballots that were cast honestly. That's the problem, so what is the solution?
As it happens, I have a proposal, a very modest proposal, one that has the virtues of accountability and transparency. Let's get rid of the secret ballot.
Hiram does indeed ask the salient question: "If improper voting is impossible to detect, why do you claim to have detected it?"
The answer is that I do not claim to have detected it. I claim that it took place because there were insufficient safeguards to prevent it, some of them deliberately added to ENCOURAGE it. Here are some examples, and I know for fact that many were replicated in MN.
tip of the iceberg
Let's take a look at the top three:
Illegal ballot drop boxes.
The documents were placed on under the color of law. Voters did nothing wrong in using them and were entitled to rely on them. It is a basic principle that misconduct by the state cannot invalidate a ballot.
A Foreign Intrusion.
There was also foreign intrusion in the 2016 campaign. In neither case, that should not invalidate the eledtion for among other reasons, that would reward attempts by foreigners to intrude.
The Laptop Lie:
this of course had nothing to do with the voting processes itself. Charges arise in all campaigns. Again if only elections were valid in which no charges were made no election would evere be valid.
I went with the top three on the assumption that those were the three best. I won't take the time to respond to all of them, but if anyone thinks two or three of them are particularly good, I will try to respond to those also.
--Hiram
Start over with this one: "Voters did nothing wrong in using them." Your totally unwarranted assumption is that only legal voters used them, only for their own ballots or, at most, 1 or 2 relatives as allowed by law. What if I could prove to you that there were hundreds of individuals who deposited 10-100 ballots in multiple dropboxes? Will you claim those were all legal votes?
Then let's take the Hunter laptop story. Surveys show that without that story being suppressed by the media (election interference), many who voted for Biden would not have done so. Negative stories about Trump were everywhere, meanwhile. You really want to claim the election was "fair" in that media environment? It's not the election processes, true, but you surely cannot say it was fair.
Your totally unwarranted assumption is that only legal voters used them,
No, I meant what I said, that they did nothing illegal in using them and that they were entitled to rely on them.
What the state has to prove is that a ballot has been cast illegally. Otherwise, the state can't discard it, or otherwise refuse to give it effect. Would you give the state the right to discard a ballot on less than convincing evidence that it was illegal?
I really don't think it would be a good idea to let me undermine the validity of elections, but doing surveys of one kind or another, but if the other side that is something that should be allowed to happen, I would be glad to listen to their arguments.
--Hiram
I don't recall if I have discussed this here, but it is baffling to me that in a system where one can mail in a ballot anywhere, drop boxes present a separate and distinct problem. I think someone said that mail boxes were monitored more but the question becomes monitored for what? If "harvested" ballots were dumped in either a mailbox or a drop box, that wouldn't be a reason for discarding any particular ballot.
--Hiram
Now you are in essence redefining the problem. A ballot in a drop box deposited by a legal voter should be counted, no question. But you are arguing that the 10 ballots deposited by an illegal ballot harvester (or outright fraudster) must be counted and accepted along with it. Doesn't that devalue the legal vote and make the result invalid?
I argue that should not be allowed to happen. WI has banned drop boxes; other states are following along. Do you agree?
How would you go about proving a ballot found in a drop box was illegally put there?
--Hiram
The simple answer is not to have the drop box. Require people to drop their ballot inside the early voting venues, in person, under surveillance.
After the fact, those locations with surveillance video will spot massive ballot dumps, track the license number to other drop boxes, and prove fraud, but still no way to separate those ballots easily and disqualify them. Prevention, not detection is the key.
Jerry,
How is a drop box different from a mailed in ballot from your perspective?
By the way, your conspiracy has been researched again.
A drop box will sit there and take in as many ballots as a single individual wants to put in; while mail in ballots supposedly come from a single identified individual.
All of your "experts" have the same basic story, though, which is "we can't find any." Of course not. As Hiram so admirably points out, once the ballot is in the drop box, it looks just like every other ballot. There are some clues if someone delves into it, but generally speaking nobody gets caught cheating in the election when there are so many easy ways to do it. I still have to rely on Joe Biden's word, that "We've built the greatest election fraud organization in history."
You are so silly...
Apparently each deposited ballot must be in a special envelope that identifies the vote so the officials can ensure they were registered...
"Subd. 2. Minimum security and integrity standards. The county auditor or municipal clerk may provide locations at which a voter may deposit a completed absentee ballot enclosed in the completed signature envelope in a secure drop box, consistent with the following security and integrity standards:
(1) each drop box must be continually recorded during the absentee voting period;
(2) each drop box must be designed to prevent an unauthorized person from moving, removing, or tampering with the drop box;
(3) each drop box placed in an outdoor location must be fastened to a building, bolted to a concrete pad, or otherwise attached to a similarly secure structure;
(4) ballots deposited in a drop box must be secured against access by any unauthorized person, and in the case of a drop box located in an outdoor location, the drop box must be secured against damage due to weather or other natural conditions;
(5) each drop box must contain signage or markings that:
(i) clearly identifies the drop box as an official absentee ballot return location; and
(ii) include the location and hours where an agent may return an absentee ballot;
(6) deposited ballots must be collected at least once per business day during the absentee voting period by the county auditor, municipal clerk, or an elections official trained by the county auditor or municipal clerk in the proper maintenance and handling of absentee ballots and absentee ballot drop boxes, and in the security measures used to protect absentee ballots; and
(7) ballots collected from each drop box must be properly date-stamped and stored in a locked ballot container or other secured and locked space consistent with any applicable laws governing the collection and storage of absentee ballots."
So your contention is that somehow criminals are figuring out who is registered but will not be voting. So they can create ballots, envelopes, forge signatures and submit them via the drop boxes?
Which really is no different than mailing in one's absentee ballot?
It is surreal what creative somewhat crazy people will think up. :-O
The contention is that if a crime is possible, it is being committed. And instead of having to prove who did it, it's up to the rest of us to prove we didn't.
--Hiram
That does seem to be Jerry's strange position.
It seems pretty anti-American to me.
And your position seems to be that if cheating is possible no one will do it. If we have massive evidence that such has taken place, is there any rational reason to deny that reality?
By the way, "find out who is registered but not likely to vote" is an entire industry, funded and abetted by [anti-American] Democrats. I know, Jerry's crazy conspiracy theories, but I mention it because I know YOU will not look it up.
Let me offer something for you to ponder: Would you prefer to believe that a web of Democrats cheated to win the 2020 election, or that the American voters, in their wisdom, gave a bumbling half-wit more votes than any candidate in history?
"massive evidence that such has taken place"
Desperate times call for desperate measures. A bumbling half wit was the much better option than a lying self serving crook... :-)
As I said, if Trump runs again it will be even worse for the GOP.
So you are much better off today than you were two years ago?
And by desperate measures you condone massive wide scale cheating?
I am doing good. And the deficit is much lower than 2 years ago.
You keep avoiding this GOP conducted study...
"We are political conservatives who have spent most of our adult lives working to support the Constitution and the conservative principles upon which it is based: limited government, liberty, equality of opportunity, freedom of religion, a strong national defense, and the rule of law.
We have become deeply troubled by efforts to overturn or discredit the results of the 2020 Presidential Election.
There is no principle of our Republic more fundamental than the right of the People to elect our leaders and for their votes to be counted accurately.
Efforts to thwart the People’s choice are deeply undemocratic and unpatriotic.
Claims that an election was stolen, or that the outcome resulted from fraud, are deadly serious and should be made only on the basis of real and powerful evidence.
If the American people lose trust that our elections are free and fair, we will lose our democracy."
I read that study, carefully. The problem, as I have already said, is that the kind of cheating that went on is very difficult to detect after the fact, especially if you are determined NOT to find it. Meanwhile, we have examples popping up all over that says there WAS cheating on a massive scale, here and there, in dropboxes, mail-in and absentee ballots which were, in some cases, accepted and counted with Republican judges excluded. Why we would accept such counts as gospel truth is far beyond the limits of good faith. There are those for whom the election of Joe Biden (actually the defeat of Trump) was a desirable end justifying any means.
Yes, the establishment GOP doesn't like to have "the people's will thwarted," but what exactly is massive cheating if not exactly that? What is eroding people's faith in elections, if not the widespread belief and increasingly accumulating evidence that massive cheating took place? It's circular reasoning at best.
So, you are OK with $5 gas, not needing baby formula or feminine napkins, small businesses folding left and right, crime rampant, drugs and gangs and general "burdens on society" flooding the Southern border, and a foreign policy that resembles a Three Stooges short? NOBODY cares about the deficit, with all these other things happening.
do you have buyers remorse
Jerry,
It is so sad that you and your like are such poor losers.
Of course Far Left Dems are unhappy with Biden's centrist successes.. Why would that be surprising?
You must be living in a different America to feel so miserable. Why haven't you moved to Canada or Mexico?
If a Republican wins in the future, are you going to be okay if the DEMs try to:
- deny the results
- undermine the validity of the vote
- violently disrupt the approval of the results
- threaten GOP politicians and bureaucrats with physical harm
Is this the America you dream of?
I am so disappointed with the folks who claim to support democracy and the rule of law while not applying to themselves. :-(
If a Republican wins in the future it will be DESPITE massive cheating by rabid, self-entitled Democrats. There is a book out "If it ain't close, they can't cheat." I would be DELIGHTED if they would contest the honesty of the election (after trying so hard to steal it), but instead they will deny, undermine, disrupt and generally have a hissy fit, just as they did with four years of President Trump. It was greatly entertaining political theater. Imagine if they had spent all that energy solving America's problems, like Trump did?
You definitely have an alternative view of history...
See reality shows that Hillary conceded like the good sport and professional that she is.
And no where did they question the validity of the vote or seek to denigrate America's election systems. They only investigated why Trump personnel were communicating with Russians before he was sworn in? Something most American's should have been concerned about.
Only yourself and your peers have sunk so low as to deny, undermine, disrupt and generally have a hissy fit. Not to mention honoring the people who broke into our US Capitol and injured / killed the police officers.
So again... If DEM supporters break into the US Capitol to deny a GOP President... You think that would be okay? This is what you think is acceptable in the USA?
Post a Comment