I never did understand this one, maybe Ron will write in to explain what they were thinking. It seems hard to think an organization or candidate could gain credibility with a suit like this. And without credibility, how can one influence anyone?
Remember that truth is often relative to your perspective... "People do not see the world as it is; they see it as they are - or as they have been conditioned to be." (Covey) With this in mind, would you like to be threatened with arrest for speaking your different version of the "truth"? Especially while defending something that you truly believe in against an entrenched status quo... It is worth pondering.
For the record: I am against deliberately lying to cause confusion and social angst. Now how do we tell lying from perspective? Are we back to judging intent.
I am sure there are 2 very interesting sides and belief systems to this story. Please share your thoughts politely and remembering the G2A rules. I'll have my hand on the delete key...
Sun 281 CARE Loses Lawsuit
Star Tribune Lawsuit filed
HJ Levy Opponents
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So, I will take the first shot at this. Is this a lie or the truth?
The RAS school district is wasting money, crowding our local roads and damaging the environment by operating twice as many school buses as are required.
If I printed this on a Vote NO brochure... Would I be lying or telling the truth? Thoughts?
Where is the line in your opinions?
Or if RAS posts almosts all positive and glowing information in their literature and releases... And purposefully downplays the achievement gap and other less glowing facts. Is this lying, freedom of speech or good marketing?
I give examples for only one reason... STOP and THINK before you post your preconceived opinions... Things usually are not as black and white as we wish them to be.
Your proposition is subject full of loaded and value laden terms, but well within the bounds of acceptable political discourse.
I always thought the suit against the schools was a form of harassment directed toward Stan in particular. But it was a political gift as well. Doubtless, during his current campaign, Ron will be asked to describe to what extent he feels he has a right to lie, and whether he is currently exercising it.
As I see it, Give, your examples fall well within the boundaries of free speech and expression. IE--here's my take the issue with the supporting facts, let's discuss. RAS provides their best angles, of course, but is always accountable for their information and responsible for its accuracy. They don't get to just make things up (ie, 15:1 student ratio! 95% grad rate!). That would be irresponsible and illegal.
Frankly, the biggest difference is that in your examples you--and RAS--are stating your view and owning it. In that campaign, the no side seemed to operate under a cloak of anonymity. Had there been a public back-and-forth, I doubt any of this would have been necessary.
It makes me cringe to even remember that campaign. Of course there are two sides, and I honor a healthy debate, and there were entirely valid reasons to vote no. Unfortunately, there was precious little light and an overabundance of heat from that campaign. If you don't have the courage of your convictions to stand up and debate them openly, then don't distribute half-truths anonymously.
It seemed like a frivolous lawsuit at the time and I'm glad to see it's been dismissed. I enjoy a healthy disagreement, but I hope as a community we never stoop to that level again.
--Annie
I was hoping some others would jump in with their thoughts..
I guess Ron was always willing to be the focus and discuss his unique views. Though the rest of the 281 Care consortium definitely did stay below the radar. However I guess we could have asked those folks with the Vote NO signs in their yard.
Of course being on the Vote NO side had to be terribly challenging from a financial aspect. They did not have the Union, Principal and PTO funding available. Or the phone bank facility and lists... Without these the Vote Yes funding and effort would have been pretty anemic. I assume they may have become a bit deperate and made some questionable choices. (ie David vs Goliath)
Vote Yes Financing
To this date I am still amazed that I was one of only a few citizens that donated >$100... Though many did give more time than I did.
That Covey quote is an adaptation of an Anais Nin quote. That strikes me as totally hilarious.
The lawsuit? A tremendous waste of precious resources.
It looks like truth, perception and lie quotes, discussions and rephrasing have been going on for a long time. (2,500+ yrs) I am always amazed at how the same "human" challenges continue after all these years.
Thank heavens or Shakespeare's work would probably not be relevant... And it wouldn't make sense for me to keep paraphrasing and quoting all these folks that I am learning from.
Wiki Truth
Wiki Lie
Wiki Anais Nin
It just leaves me to ponder, why would I vote for a man (Ron Stoffel) who wanted to make a point of exaggerating the truth in an earlier campaign he ran? Yes, I know that Lyndon had a high per diem, but did he waste our money on a frivolous law suit? Also the whole paying Paul Dorr to sabotage the work all of the 281 volunteers left me extremely bitter. John, I do however agree that the district tends to gloss things over instead of being upfront. But at least they don't hire someone from out of state to come in and make up lies.
Well, it seems the majority think the lawsuit was not a good idea, and it will likely hurt Ron's credibility as a candidate.
I tend to agree and believe that he will definitely need to try and address the issue. Which will be incredibly difficult, with people second guessing anything he says.
A lie is the telling of a deliberate untruth with the intent to deceive. In John's example, you would have to prove that John KNEW for a fact that "wasting money, crowding roads and damaging the environment" were untrue, when in fact they are perfectly legitimate opinions based on the one fact of "operating twices as many school buses as required." Of course the latter is also an opinion, unless the district can prove that the district DOES require more than half the number of buses it has, AND has public released that information AND that John was aware of it.
Seems to me that this whole argument is backwards. Citizen groups, denied a proper knowledge of school district financial matters, are entitled to express their doubts and objections with a lot of latitude, a presumption of fair opinion leading to subjective truth, at least. But school districts should NOT be hiding a fair and balanced presentation of their entire financial picture, and absolutely should be prohibited from making such one-sided presentations using taxpayer funds. Yet in every referendum that seems to be the case. The biggest liars are usually the ones with the biggest financial stake in the lie.
J. Ewing
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