Now this is just for discussion purposes, do not panic!!!! There is no pending change that I know of....
However someone influential in the RAS system mentioned several times in different public forums that they did not quite understand our extensive use of Intradistrict Transfers. Apparently, in other districts they often limit Intradistrict Transfers in order to enable more Open Enrollees to enter the district. Therefore providing additional funding for the good of the district's students.
Here is how I think it would work. Let's say for simple math that RAS reduced Intradistrict Transfers to Zachary Lane Elementary by 100 students. The intent being that they would return to their neighborhood schools (ie no head count/funding loss), and those openings would then be filled by 100 Open Enrollees from Osseo or another district. The financial gain to the district would be ~$900,000 (ie 100 X ~$9,000) that could be used for the good of the district children.
I suppose this could also apply to RSIS or any other RAS school that is at capacity due to Intradistrict Transfers.
I am thinking this would not be well received. What are your thoughts?
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18 comments:
Isn't the question as to why parents would want to leave one school and attend another? Or why you have more school capacity than you need for the students you have? Or why you make a "profit" on teaching kids from other districts, but need more money to teach your own?
J. Ewing
Here is my situation. I have three kids who attend IB at RMS. We actually live in the PMS district (although it is much farther than RMS). Most of the parents that live in our areas, especially the ones who attended RSI, want their kids to attend PMS because they see it as less threatening. However, we buck the trend, send our kids to RMS and provide tons of volunteer time. One of the only benefits we get is a bus ride to school. It made our choice to attend IB and not AP at PMS that much easier. Now from what I can tell, you are advocating terminating that ride and force many of the strong students we have at RMS to look elsewhere because you don't want to provide a bus. Do you want any kind of equity in the two schools? Here's a great idea, Jon. No buses for anyone. Or we send all of the meadow lake and Northport kids to PMS(actually closer) ...Like that idea better? We could actually rearrange the district once again and make it so RMS is actually the school kids in my area have to go to because it is 1 mile away not 6. See the slippery slope here? I am guessing your kids attend schools on the western part of the district? I may be wrong.
J,
I am not sure where to go with your thoughts. The reality is that other than RSIS, the schools, curriculum, teachers, buildings, administration, etc are very similar across the district. Overall they are pretty great.
The reason people leave has little to do with the schools themselves. They leave because of the School's student demographics and the challenges that come with that demographic. So unless you have some thoughts on how to reduce mobility, poverty, language issues, etc in those neighborhoods. I am not sure how to convince stable English speaking middle class folks to send their kids there.
I realize you like to believe the public "School District" is almost always the problem, not the families, kids and community. Of course, I disagree and believe the parents, students, "folks that leave", community, Schools, Cities, etc are all contributing to the problem. It is definitely a complex system. (Have you read "Whatever it Takes Yet"???)
By the way, Open Enrollees help cover the costs that the district believes are fixed or hard to spin off. I am still not sure how much profit the Open Enrollees generate. If the child brings $9,000 with them and they cost $12,000 due to personal challenges... Then the child is actually a loss for the district.
Of course this would mean we actually new the revenue and cost of each student... As you said, this is unlikely anytime soon.
Anon,
I would greatly appreciate it if you would sign your comments with some meaningful name so we can keep track and get to know you.
You are correct. My girls are currently in ZLE, PMS and AHS. To ensure full disclosure, they are in the pre-AP and AP classes.
As for what I advocate, that is often hard to determine. Mostly I try to share information and promote dialogue on many topics. Sometimes I change things up because often I can see benefits to both sides.
If I do have a common theme, it is how can we increase the dollars spent in the classroom and reduce the achievement gap without increasing the tax bill of our neighbors that have no kids.
As for busing, desegregation, choice programs, intradistrict transfers, school boundaries, etc. These are definitely difficult and complex topics worth discussing.
So what are your thoughts regarding limiting Intradistrict Transfers to keep good kids and families in their community school, and providing more Open Enrollment revenues.
By the way, remember I just posted the idea. It was not mine...
"The reality is that other than RSIS, the schools, curriculum, teachers, buildings, administration, etc are very similar across the district."
In fact, each of those things is true of RSI, as well. Same class size, ratio, building needs, admin structure, and--aside from the language spoken--curriculum.
--Annie
RSIS has some other things going on in the way of their Teacher's Assistants from other countries.
G2A RSI Rocks
However, I agree they have similar facilities, teachers, administration, etc.
Yes, international TAs. But I don't believe they skew the student/teacher ratio wildly.
Sorry to be the hammer on this, but I've decided not to let these assumptions just lie there anymore. If you can substantiate them, I'll happily stand down. Unless and until then, I'm the official squeaky wheel on this issue.
I love squeaky wheels, they make the discussions more interesting.
JGW, Sue or Other with RSI ties,
I assume the Int'l TA's are in addition to the normal RAS Teacher and EA staffing. This is why the PTA pays most of their cost and they live with the student's families.
This leads to an "adult to student ratio" that is somewhat lower at RSI, and it provides an excellent cultural benefit.
I am pretty certain from our previous discussions, however I need a little oil for the squeky wheel. Thanks
Hey Squeaky Wheel,
Though I am happy to get answers regarding how RSIS varies from the other RAS schools... What does this have to do with "Intradistrict Transfers" vs "Open Enrollees" post?
We know RSIS is different and special. In fact we market it often and hold a lottery to determine who gets to be enrolled. Most of my friends that have kids there really like it.
Though I suppose it would apply if the district agreed to hold 100+ slots for open enrollees instead of RAS kids. That would be a lively mtg....
Give--You're correct--it's nothing to do with the original post, and didn't mean to sidetrack. But here and elsewhere (blogs, meetings, etc) there are assumptions about RSI that just aren't accurate and I feel a sense of responsibility to point them out, even if they're not germane to the original topic.
I'm sure you'd do the same for your school--we all may as well spread facts rather than misinformation, right?
--Annie (sorry I neglected to sign my earlier one).
Annie,
So does this mean you are an RSI parent? If so, are the Int'l TA's above the "typical" RAS staffing? And how many do they have this year?
By the way, the only misinformation I have knowingly spread was when I made up my "twice the buses" free speech or truth example. (ie I was in character...) I am pretty sure it is not actually twice... Maybe 30% more. I need to do some more thinking and research before I nail that one down.
Usually I am pretty sure of my facts, or I put the "I am just guessing" disclaimer in front of it and go fishing for the reader's help. However, please feel free to challenge. That is the fun of and value in dialogue. If we all agreed, this would be a very boring read.
I was guessing it was you, but had some fun with the squeaky wheel analogy.
Yep, I'm an RSI parent. Unfortunately, I don't know precisely the number of TAs or exactly how they're compensated. I do know the PTO raises funds for it, but I can't speak with authority about how the program is structured.
And I'm still going to hold your feet to the fire for implying that our school has different "Schools, curriculum, teachers, buildings, administration", than the others. I'll give you busing, but the others put you on much less solid footing. (wink)
I recently heard, and would be interested if anyone can substantiate--is our district responsible for busing for the charters and privates within our boundaries? And if so, it seems like that should be the low-hanging fruit for transportation cuts.
--Annie
First, RSI curriculum and Teachers are different... Next time you are in the classroom. Listen really close... They should be speaking Spanish... I am pretty sure no other school in the district is taught in Spanish. (hahahaha)
As for the Int'l Teaching Assistants, there are typically 7 - 10 from different countries. They are paid for by the PTA and live with host families during their stay here. A neighbor hosted one a couple years back.
Now let's say we add ~7 TA's to the ~27 Teachers. This is a pretty good thing. In this case it is good to be different. I am just not sure if ZLE would be allowed to do the same with some low cost English speaking TA's from India, even if we found the funding or host families. It would probably be worth asking.
This years RSI PTA budget was not linked, so I could not get the exact number. Though the Principal welcomed them in a newsletter. She just did not introduce them or say how many. By the way, you folks have incredible
newsletters, an awesome fund raising site and the minutes are so well written. (RSI Website
I do not believe that RAS pays transportation funding for Private or Charter students. However they do lose the State funding for these students. Then the state transfers the student's funding to the Charter school. Because Charter schools are MN Public Schools.
If the child is moving out of a school that is not meeting AYP, I believe it gets more complicated. However the district is legally obligated to pay those bills.
The parent's that pay for Private school either drive or pay for transportation, based on our friends with kids in Private.
Corrections welcome and encouraged as always !!!
Why did this turn into an RSI discussion? RSI kids have TAs, their onw building, etc. The only issue I have with this successful program is that most parents I know who attend are ones who would never consider 281 otherwise. For example, our elementary school has 48% Free and reduced lunch with limited PTA participation and funding due to the poverty. If spanish immersion is so great, let's offer it at every school, not just one that is really shut out from the realities of the district. RSI...just accept the fact that you get what you want, and are willing to force that issue with the school district. The rest of us will deal with the more major issues that surround the district.
OK, I did a bit of research and here's the info I was trying to share regarding transportation.
Charters can either provide transportation (as the ones in 281 do) or else the home district has to provide it. It appears the state reimburses the district for all or part of those expenses. But the upshot for families is that you can send your child to your neighborhood school and get free transportation. Or you can send them to the charter school across the district and get free transportation. Or, by your plan, you can send them to RSI and pay. That just doesn't seem logical or equitable.
I've gotten mired in the details here, and we've been down this road before, but my point is this: the school works. It's essentially identical in cost and structure to all other district schools (and if you want to debate minutae, then we're back in the details). So why is THIS the program you choose to focus on? Choose one that's failing the kids. One that's cost prohibitive and costs 200% more. Whatever. But for heaven's sake, let's not get so penny wise that we tear down a program that's producing good students who learn well, test well, and are an asset to the district at no (or incremental) additional cost.
I agree !!! Thank Heavens !!! I'm not sure how we got side tracked. Back to the topic.
Would changing the Intradistrict Transfer policy to hold more "popular" spots for Open Enrollees in order to attract them and increase district funds be a good or bad thing? Why or why not?
That is simply a good thing. The more students that have a chance to succeed and escape the horrors of poverty, the better. Don't we want this in the end? Is it always just about us and our own families? We are the richest nation on earth and we can't find the money to help out needy kids. If Pawlenty would let loose of his tight educational reign, we could actually help all kids. JSut think of this example. I always keep a few extra dollars in my wallet so when I travel adn see someone on the subway asking for money I can just give it to them. I don't attach any strings to it. I don't think, what if that guy buys a bottle of booze with it. Why should I put a judgement on it? Same with educational opportunities. Isn't it our duty as a society to open our arms to those less fortunate and give them every chance to succeed? I hope we want to help others even if the results aren't perfect or we have to give up something to help out. Imgine, instead of saving up all of this fundraisnieng money to buy smart borads (RSI) we actually put that money to help those who could really use it? Makes you think , huh? I beleive our district is strong enough that we could provide opportunity for everyone, not just htose more fortunate to have great families, good jobs, etc.
Darn! I've been busy and missed this discussion. I have had kids at RSI. Any school is allowed to get the teaching assistants if they want to pay for them. This is not something that is permissible only to RSI. They get TA's from Spanish-speaking countries because, of course, the kids have to learn Spanish. I'm not sure why the RSI PTO budget is not on the website...I'll talk to someone about that.
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