Well I think I am happy that Doug Jones won. Besides Roy Moore's past of courting young ladies, he was really a FAR Right Religious whacko...(Link 1) (Link 2) (Link 3) I would put him to the Right and below the Tea party on the diagram below. He would be happy to use government to make people behave in certain ways. CNN How Doug Jones Won Thoughts?
It is kind of sad knowing that the far Right folks like Bannon, and the behaviors of Trump are going to give the government to the DEMs in 2018. I mean they are insistent on running FAR RIGHT (RR) candidates and as the diagram shows there simply aren't enough Conservatives in the country. I mean if the Moderates and the folks on the Left are motivated and get out to vote, the GOP is going to lose often. And the antics by the Far Right are sure motivating the folks on the Left to take action.
It is kind of sad knowing that the far Right folks like Bannon, and the behaviors of Trump are going to give the government to the DEMs in 2018. I mean they are insistent on running FAR RIGHT (RR) candidates and as the diagram shows there simply aren't enough Conservatives in the country. I mean if the Moderates and the folks on the Left are motivated and get out to vote, the GOP is going to lose often. And the antics by the Far Right are sure motivating the folks on the Left to take action.
38 comments:
Since no one else is biting... A younger person I was talking to started ranting about how sick Moore was and they were happy he did not get in. So I took a moment to complicate their thinking... (surprise...) :-)
I noted that the age of consent in Alabama is 16. And that 40 years ago many poor Parents may have been happy to have a 30 year old professional courting their ~17 year old daughter. Their was always the hope that he could care for her well... Just like a Prince Charming story. (I wonder how old Cinderella was relative to the Prince?)
Then I explained that Doug Jones supports the killing of a fetus in the womb at pretty much any time during pregnancy. And the use of various questionable destructive means.
They responded that that is fine because abortion should the woman's choice because it is her body.
Then I reminded them that at 20 weeks old the fetus looks like a tiny baby, has eyes, working organs, a heart beat, moves, etc.
My point being that nothing is easy about these decisions. Roy Moore may have a had a predilection for young women when he was younger. However now he wants to protect unborn babies where as Doug Jones wants to allow people to kill them.
When things seem really black and white... That is a good time to think deeper.
"Then I explained that Doug Jones supports the killing of a fetus in the womb at pretty much any time during pregnancy. And the use of various questionable destructive means." where do you come up with such nonsense
also - parents do no want a 30 year molesting their 14 year old daughter. Did the young person find these points you raised persuasive or did they call you on such idiocy?
if the country can survive a couple more years of GOP control I am hopeful that young voters replacing old voters will bode well for democrats and the country.
Laurie,
Of course Jones is up for killing the fetus at any age, that is why the race was so close. Link 2
As we have discussed before... I don't see any difference between a 24 week fetus and a 24 week preemie. I wouldn't allow a Mother to smother or starve her baby in the neo-natal incubator. Or cut it into pieces...
The good news is that every year the viability date gets younger and younger with each medical advance!!! Soon there will be NO MORE 18 week and older abortions.
As for Younger Women and Older Man Relationships... Don't be so naïve...
Please remember that no one has proven the 14 year old allegation... It is possible, but it seems young even for his tastes.
It gave them pause and made them think. That was my only goal as usual.
I think the fate of the DEM party depends if they keep being "Crazy Left"...
Their future is in their hands, since even young people don't want to pay lots of extra taxes so others can free load. And I am pretty sure most want a good job, which means supporting our American companies. Not seeing them as enemies.
I keep hoping the GOP goes Far Right, the DEMs go Far Left and we get a new party that is fiscally Conservative and socially Liberal !!!
Interesting questions...
During courtship if an 22 year old boy tries to move from first to second base with a 17 year old girl...
Is that deemed normal sexual tension and experimentation, or sexual molestation?
Where exactly is the line?
Can any girl who feels the boy was pushing faster than she was willing able to destroy the career of any young man?
This stuff is fascinating to me...
For your Listening Enjoyment: Meatloaf
Now on the other hand... I keep hoping the silly far Right Conservatives could get behind making sex education complete, mandatory and well funded. And making long act reversible birth control cheap and easily available. CNN What Women Really Want
I love this story...
"Tattooed on Stacie Sexton's left shoulder are the longitude and latitude of Whitesburg, where she was born and raised until she moved to nearby Hazard as a tween. She lives in Lexington now but never forgets where she's from. She recalls the abstinence-only education she got in grade school and how two of the seven girls in her class got pregnant before the end of eighth grade. One miscarried; the other married."
It explains in great detail the stupidity of the Religious Right belief system.
Like that young girl and boy with their hormones raging is going to stop and say... "What were they teaching me in school last week..."
Especially when the stupid horned up boy/man "promises" he will pull out in time...
"This is a deeply personal decision," the statement said. "I support the current law on a woman's freedom to choose, which has been in place for decades, where late-term abortions are permitted to protect the life or health of the mother."
do you read links before you post one. This shows that Jones favors abortion restrictions.
What aggravated me about the clintons is they took the criminal law asa code of conduct. Sexual behaviors don’t have to be criminal to be inappropriate or predatory. Roy Moore is apparently an emotionally stunted individual something that isn’t limited to his behaviors toward women and girls. They are behaviors often shown by Trump.
—-Hiram
"Please remember that no one has proven the 14 year old allegation."
What would suffice as proof in your mind?
The Washington Post story found two people to whom the woman told her story to at the time it happened and a third person who she told later, but still about 30 years ago. They checked her story about how she met Moore for the first time while her mother had a court hearing against the court records and the dates checked out. The woman herself is a Republican who voted for Trump, so she's not driven by partisan concerns. This is a credible allegation.
"Can any girl who feels the boy was pushing faster than she was willing able to destroy the career of any young man?"
Your fascination with worrying about the perpetrators of harassment and assault is something to behold.
Laurie,
And...
"Todd: "So you wouldn't be in favor of legislation that said, ban abortion after 20 weeks or something like that?"
Jones: "I'm not in favor of anything that is going to infringe on a woman's right and her freedom to choose. That's just the position that I've had for many years. It's a position I continue to have. But I want people to understand that once that baby is born, I'm going to be there for that child. That's where I become a right-to-lifer."
So if the 24 week old fetus he will let the Doctor slice and dice it...
And if the 24 week old baby is born prematurely he will spend a lot of money on it.
Now I know that this is a very complicated issue and there are good reasons for late term abortions. However this obsession with "woman's right and her freedom to choose" is just too annoying...
Let's expand this a little bit. The 24 week preemie is laying there in the neo natal intensive care crib. The Mother learns that the baby is going to burden her with excessive medical bills for decades because of some defect... Should Mom be allowed to smother the preemie? Should she be free to end the "burden"? Should she have the Right to Choose?
Sean,
I am sorry but the silliness of Franken having to quit because of what I know about is just silly.
And yes I am a fan of due process as you know.
Where is that line and how do we as a society protect the rights of the accused?
Some Liberals will strive to protect the rights of a person caught holding a gun over a dead body, however they will happily ruin the career and life of any man who women claim got "handsy".
By the way, this is telling. "the perpetrators of harassment and assault"
When in reality it is the "people accused of ...."
And I really think we need to better define "harassment" as a society.
When I had training at a previous company.
1. Individual A did something acceptable to /near Individual B
2. Individual B needed to tell Individual A to stop. "That is not ok for me"
3. Then if Individual A continued it was deemed harassment.
Now days it seems Individual A can be fired for pretty much anything...
One co-worker was fired immediately because another sensitive co-worker over heard a joke he was sharing with someone else... No appeal, no tolerance, No training, etc. Just a box and walked to the door.
The irony of course is that the people demanding immediate "accountability" of all these folks are those who demand that Teachers need "due process" when they are performing poorly. Or are accused of doing something unacceptable.
An interesting a somewhat Related Tale
"Due process" is a term that relates to things covered by the legal system -- crimes or contractual issues.
You're not entitled to due process anywhere else. (Again, I'll note your willingness to defend "handsy" men but your willingness to fire NFL players who kneel during the anthem)
That's where things like the Franken situation run off the rails. Yes, Franken is entitled to due process if the Senate were to attempt to kick him out. But, if large numbers of people decide that he's no longer fit to be a Senator, and he decides to resign in the face of that pressure, due process isn't applicable.
As for NFL Players...
1. They would have been notified that certain behavior was deemed unacceptable by their employer. And given an opportunity to improve.
2. Their "guilt" if they chose to continue the behavior would have been clear. (ie not just being "accused")
So again, you seem to be advocating a Salem Witch Hunt mentality. If a young woman claims someone is a witch... Get out the wood, stake rope, and oil...
Where as if someone claims a Teacher or other Union member is questionable, the Liberals seem to advocate that they be protected by lengthy process.
"So again, you seem to be advocating a Salem Witch Hunt mentality."
Nope. Everyone who is accused can deny the allegations, and provide their counter-story.
In the Franken case, for instance, he never provided what he said was his "different recollection" of the events, nor could he provide assurances that there weren't other women out there with similar stories. I think the ever-increasing line of accusers made it entirely appropriate for Democrats to suggest that he should go. Franken could have chosen to go to the Ethics Committee and duke it out there, but he chose not to.
"Where as if someone claims a Teacher or other Union member is questionable, the Liberals seem to advocate that they be protected by lengthy process."
They have a contract that dictates said process.
Yes, I believe that Franken did try to counter their story but no one was listening. They were to busy gathering the wood and matches.
And how would he counter... "I think his hand was too close to my butt while taking a picture."
Pretty much any statement is met with "he is blaming the victim" or "we need to trust victim"
Kind of like that nice 71 year DEM lady who stated the obvious. If you dress in a suggestive manner, you may attract attention from less well behaved men... Now she is getting blow back for saying something that is common knowledge.
Finally, you are correct that Franken could have stuck it out.
Yes it is in the contract, however it is the Liberals who support the Unions and their putting all of that "protect the worker instead of the kids" language in the contracts.
I personally would prefer that School Administrators be able to err on the side of ensuring the kids are safe and well instructed... :-)
"Kind of like that nice 71 year DEM lady who stated the obvious. If you dress in a suggestive manner, you may attract attention from less well behaved men... Now she is getting blow back for saying something that is common knowledge."
That's the problem. Women shouldn't have to put up with that sort of behavior. It shouldn't be "obvious" or "common knowledge". It should be unacceptable.
"Yes it is in the contract, however it is the Liberals who support the Unions and their putting all of that "protect the worker instead of the kids" language in the contracts."
Teacher tenure didn't emerge out of the blue -- it was established for good reason. It should also be pointed out that studies show that teacher firings occur at about the same rate as in the private sector. AFT: Tenure
Really... Men should not notice and be enthralled by an attractive woman wearing a skimpy tight fitting outfit? Really?
Are you really trying to fight millennia of genetic coding?
I have explained to my daughters that they should dress appropriately to the situation, and to the reaction they desire to get. If one wants to be treated like a professional, dress the part. If one wants to attract the attention of a special person, dress the part.
They of course think I am silly as with everything I say. Of course the humorous part is when they demand that I change out of my garage clothes before they will be seen in public with me.
The reality is that what we wear is a choice, just like our behavior. And other people will treat and/or judge us differently based on that choice.
I am not blaming the people who choose inappropriate clothing for the circumstance, maybe they just are oblivious to the consequences of their choice.
In one class, I was told about a smoking hot young woman intern who was hired and spent a lot of time walking around the factory floor. On her first day she dressed very seductively and the results were predictable. Then her boss had to explain the safety and productivity issues her choice was causing. The next day she dressed more appropriate to the job and every thing went much better.
Now are you saying the Boss should have tried to train every employee (male and female) that found her appearance distracting to "just not look"... Really?
I am not sure I am ready to read union generated propaganda right now. Maybe later.
The reality is that we citizens:
- vote for School Board Members to ensure our kids learn well and cost effectively.
- the School Board Members hire a Supt to ensure our kids learn well and cost effectively
- the Supt hire Supervisors to ensure our kids learn well and cost effectively
And unfortunately Liberals want to make it difficult for them all to do so. For some reason they want to ensure that individual Teachers and the Union itself can cause delays, inefficiencies, consternation, poor resource utilization, ineffective compensation policies, etc.
Of course it is great for the older Teachers... But not great for attaining the District and voters goal. (ie kids learn well and cost effectively)
"Really... Men should not notice and be enthralled by an attractive woman wearing a skimpy tight fitting outfit? Really?"
They can notice and be enthralled all they want so long as they keep their grubby paws to themselves and don't make crude, sexual comments. It's called "personal responsibility" -- something I though conservatives were in favor of.
"But not great for attaining the District and voters goal. (ie kids learn well and cost effectively)"
Again, this is an assertion that's not borne out by facts. States with lax unionization in public education aren't producing better results.
Well that is good that gawking is acceptable... :-)
And my point is that "personal responsibility" goes both ways.
If you want to holds the Men with poor social skills accountable, let's also hold the women with poor social skills accountable.
No more leering and no more short tight skirts and low cut tops...
What a boring world Liberals dream of...
There certainly are a lot of factors involved...
G2A Causation vs Correlation
G2A Blame vs Contributions
And given the relatively short history of extremely powerful education unions I think we are going to have a hard time proving Causation.
Reading that link more closely, it seems the Teachers unions are like others...
They were great at first, and then they just kept pushing their luck and harming our system / children more and more.
"What a boring world Liberals dream of..."
What exactly are you saying here? I fail to see what is so boring about respecting women as people who have autonomy over their own body.
Did you ever listen to the Meatloaf song?
Human sexuality and emotions are very messy and not easily put in a box.
One person's playful fun can be another person's "harassment".
One person's idea of personal space can be very different than another's.
One person can believe there is a mutual attraction when the other person does not intend that.
One person can be emotionally stable and the other isn't.
One person may leave the event happy and the other may want to get even for some perceived affront.
I am not sure how a man should treat women in the world you ascribe to. And I sure would be hesitant to approach or take any chances with a woman in that world. Thankfully I am long off the market.
Maybe as Meatloaf explains. At the bar or when taking photos next to each other, we will have to keep signable waivers with us so the other person can sign it before coming near each other.
I am certain Al Franken is wishing he would have had them before taking thousand and thousands of photos... :-)
And Political Correctness Police Smell Fresh Meat...
"I am not sure how a man should treat women in the world you ascribe to."
I don't understand what is so difficult about it. Implied in your statement is that a man should have a right to touch a woman's body when she hasn't given you permission to do so.
I can't believe I'm going to disagree with Sean, but...
Franken was railroaded out of the Senate so that Gillibrand could make a name for herself in calling on Franken, and then Trump, to resign.
Franken was VERY clear in everything he said, that the women who accused him deserved to be heard and their experiences acknowledged. Anything else, and he would have been accused of victim-blaming and calling them liars. He knows as well as anybody, probably better than most because he's a very intelligent person, that women should be heard, but it doesn't mean that every accusation is true. But he can't say that, because it would make the situation worse for him and for the women.
Moose
How do you want to document whether she gave permission or not?
Or do you want to keep with the he said / she said thing?
"Or do you want to keep with the he said / she said thing?"
I really don't think this is that complicated.
It is only complicated because the punishment for these "he said / she said's" is so severe...
As I said, I am just thankful I will not be subjected to one of these on line / in the press witch hunts.
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