Here is an interesting poll result. Only 29 percent of Americans approve of the tax bill.
WAPO Is Tax Bill Biggest Windfall for Rich?
NPR Tax Plan Comparison
Heritage How Bill will Impact Economy
I found this WAPO graph interesting, because it shows tax cuts since 2000 in one place. Please remember that the tax cuts in 2001, 2003, 2008, 2009 and 2010 benefited almost everyone in America. Whereas the 2012 "tax cut" was actually the extending of the previous cuts for the benefit of the low and middle income citizens. (note: others were actually extensions) While the earlier tax cuts for the wealthy folks were allowed to lapse. In essence they had a significant tax increase plus they got hit with the ACA taxes just before that.
My point is that we in the low and middle class are already "living the dream of lower taxes". Yet many will complain because they may not get as big of a cut as others. I have to wonder if they even understand this? Did they complain when the taxes were raised on the wealthy and not themselves? :-)
I personally am against the bills only because our spineless politicians are not making the budget cuts necessary to offset the loss in revenues. If they want to give out gifts... They should have to pay for them and not transfer the bill to our children!!!
Of course as we have been discussing, the Conservative really don't seem to be very Conservative per the second graph.
WAPO Is Tax Bill Biggest Windfall for Rich?
NPR Tax Plan Comparison
Heritage How Bill will Impact Economy
I found this WAPO graph interesting, because it shows tax cuts since 2000 in one place. Please remember that the tax cuts in 2001, 2003, 2008, 2009 and 2010 benefited almost everyone in America. Whereas the 2012 "tax cut" was actually the extending of the previous cuts for the benefit of the low and middle income citizens. (note: others were actually extensions) While the earlier tax cuts for the wealthy folks were allowed to lapse. In essence they had a significant tax increase plus they got hit with the ACA taxes just before that.
My point is that we in the low and middle class are already "living the dream of lower taxes". Yet many will complain because they may not get as big of a cut as others. I have to wonder if they even understand this? Did they complain when the taxes were raised on the wealthy and not themselves? :-)
I personally am against the bills only because our spineless politicians are not making the budget cuts necessary to offset the loss in revenues. If they want to give out gifts... They should have to pay for them and not transfer the bill to our children!!!
Of course as we have been discussing, the Conservative really don't seem to be very Conservative per the second graph.
17 comments:
My point is that we in the low and middle class are already "living the dream of lower taxes".
My general sense is that taxes are much more of a burden than they are for rich people. I don't think Trump made fewer trips to Florida when his taxes went up. But that isn't something I could prove. In contrast, I know a lot of people who have a hard time coming up with their property tax payment.
--Hiram
Yes, it's puzzling.
First:
WaPo: Richest 1% now owns more of the country's wealth than at any time in the past 50 years
Second:
CBO Distribution Analysis of Senate Tax Bill that shows middle-class tax cuts vanish
Hiram,
Maybe those folks should down size homes, get room mates or start renting...
If people don't like paying high income taxes, why don't they reduce their incomes? Actually, they do that. It's why the rich pay as little in taxes as they do.
--Hiram
I am pretty sure encouraging people to make less is a bad idea for our country. Seems kind like the USSR's method.
And I am pretty sure encouraging people to live in properties that are above their income level is bad for them and our country. (ie 2008 mortgage meltdown)
I am pretty sure encouraging people to make less is a bad idea for our country.
That's a more complicated question. I don't know that we should encourage any particularly salary. The fact is, a good teacher is far more valuable than a good shortstop, yet shortstop makes a lot more money. Donald Trump is hugely rich despite his frequent bankruptcies which did untold damage to the economy.
The fact is poor people have money in different ways than rich people. When you don't have a lot of money you have a tougher time paying for stuff.
--Hiram
The fact is that poor people should be more motivated to learn, improve, change and improve their earning potential. Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case with many lower income people I know.
They seem more comfortable settling into their low income lives and complaining about their lot in lives... Maybe it is easier than actually looking in the mirror and making the required improvements.
As for Teachers, they have chosen job security and consistent raises over better incomes.
Remember that very very few ball players are deemed "a good shortstop"... And they can lose the job very quickly... Where as the Teaching profession is very very different...
The fact is that poor people should be more motivated to learn, improve, change and improve their earning potential.
Donald Trump seems to be pretty dumb, but his earning potential is just fine. Your average teacher is more educated than your average shortstop, yet still earns much less.
How important are consistent raises to someone who makes several million dollars a year?
Very few people fly to the moon. But what does that have to do with teachers, their value, and what they should get paid?
--Hiram
The Mrs and I were discussing 2 AP class teachers today. One Teacher is personable, but disorganized and somewhat poor at covering the material. Well she is out of class for a month due to surgery...
The sub came in and started questioning the class about a simple topic that they should have covered by now. The class looked at her blankly, so she grabbed one of the other AP Teachers in this subject and they questioned all 3 sections that the recovering Teacher had this semester... It turns out that they are all far behind...
The "other AP Teacher" who from our past experience is excellent / challenging has started using his prep time to come into the sections in an attempt to catch the kids up. And the kids are now listening in class and understanding the subject.
I am sure hoping that "other AP Teacher" is making much more, but I don't think that is the case.
And I am sure hoping they put the "original AP Teacher" on an "urgent improvement plan", but I kind of doubt that will happen due to union rules.
How much are the teachers worth to you? How much are shortstops worth to you? Whose success matters to you more?
--Hiram
That is a decision made by the free market.
That is unless you support governmental price and supply controls? (ie USSR)
Do you think the 2 "AP Teachers" with the same degrees and years served should receive the same compensation though there is a huge capability and performance difference?
Do you think the 2 "AP Teachers" with the same degrees and years served should receive the same compensation though there is a huge capability and performance difference?
No, that is not what I think.
--Hiram
That is a decision made by the free market.
How much does it matter who makes value decisions? Shouldn't we be able form opinions about the value decisions made by others particularly when they have an impact on us?
--Hiram
Markets decide about prices all the time. To what extent is this irrelevant to us. When I go to a market, and see products which have prices attached. should those prices matter to me? Or is the price something sells at of no concern?
--Hiram
If you think they should be paid differently, are you okay ending the steps/lanes compensation in our school system?
You are free to have opinions about whatever you like. I think we should end steps, lanes, tenure, etc so the 2 above mentioned Teachers can be earn what they deserve according to the free market. This does not mean it will happen.
Of course prices are important, they are part of what drives development, expenditures, etc. People are usually willing to pay more for things that are of high value to themselves.
Where as what you are recommending is some form of central control for the good of society. And this has often failed disastrously in the past when it was tried.
Where as what you are recommending is some form of central control for the good of society
Sure. It's why I vote in school board elections.
--Hiram
Now at least those are local in nature, though I wonder how successful they are given:
-the on going achievement gap
- many Teachers seem dissatisfied with the deal
- many tax payers seem dissatisfied with the deal
- and the actual service recipients have little input
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