So the writer of this piece espouses the tired old liberal elite belief. CNN Some of Us are Complicit in Racism
Now I agree that there are some terrible people out there like this deranged supremacist who killed people for telling him to stop badgering innocent girls. The good news is that we can find and deal with people like him. I am more worried about all of the Liberal elites who keep supporting policies that trap people in poverty and dependency.
"Let us make it clear that robbing people of their right to vote is sinful, shameful and unacceptable. Let us work to heal the breach between police departments and black communities. And let us correct those congregants, parishioners, elected officials and opinion makers who deny, against all evidence, that racism remains a powerful force in American life. "Where as I agree with Ben Carson's assessment better. And this interview with another driven Black man seconds Ben's views.
"ROLLE: No. I honestly - I never had a doubt. And I cannot take the credit. I give that to my parents. You know, we came from the islands of the Bahamas, and I left there when I was very young, ended up moving to New Jersey. And in New Jersey, my parents were prophesied to my brothers and I and speak and hardwire into our minds that just because we come from a small country, just because we have dark skin, just because we don't have a lot of money does not mean that we cannot accomplish our goals in this country that has an abundancy (ph) of resources.Here is a Liberal video response to Carson's comment. It like the original piece is very complicit in the racism of low expectations and excuses.. When are Liberals going to respect people of color enough to hold them to the same standards of behavior, effort, academics, etc as every one else?
We have to develop our firm foundation of education. We have to believe in ourselves. We have to be good citizens, good leaders, stay true to our Christian principles, and these things could happen for us. So they poured the confidence in me, and I walked out of my house in New Jersey every morning thinking, yeah, why not? Why can't I do both? Why can't I do all things? Once I had that firm belief, it gave me, you know, the initiative to kind of go and pursue those things with all veracity."
Now I agree that there are some terrible people out there like this deranged supremacist who killed people for telling him to stop badgering innocent girls. The good news is that we can find and deal with people like him. I am more worried about all of the Liberal elites who keep supporting policies that trap people in poverty and dependency.
44 comments:
you seem to be conflating two issues here racism and safety net programs. If you want to write about welfare dependency perhaps you should write about 93% white west virginia, which has 29% of the people on medicaid and 19% on food stamps.
as for racism, it is not some tired old liberal elite belief, but trying to get you to understand and acknowledge that this is a problem in the present as well as in the past would be a colossal waste of time.
While I don't have interest in discussing this topic I will provide you a link that you can disagree with.
How the Stress of Racism Affects Learning
here is another link for you to argue against its conclusions
Black-white wage gaps larger today than in 1979 due primarily to discrimination
Now I do realize we have a bit of the chicken and the egg thing going on, however to deny that the single parent household disaster is not a key cause of poverty within the minority communities is just silliness.
As Rolle said
"No. I honestly - I never had a doubt. And I cannot take the credit. I give that to my parents. You know, we came from the islands of the Bahamas, and I left there when I was very young, ended up moving to New Jersey. And in New Jersey, my parents were prophesied to my brothers and I and speak and hardwire into our minds that just because we come from a small country, just because we have dark skin, just because we don't have a lot of money does not mean that we cannot accomplish our goals in this country that has an abundancy (ph) of resources.
We have to develop our firm foundation of education. We have to believe in ourselves. We have to be good citizens, good leaders, stay true to our Christian principles, and these things could happen for us. So they poured the confidence in me, and I walked out of my house in New Jersey every morning thinking, yeah, why not? Why can't I do both? Why can't I do all things? Once I had that firm belief, it gave me, you know, the initiative to kind of go and pursue those things with all veracity."
Of course white liberals probably think that Dr Carson and Dr Rolle are just some complicit racists... How do you rationalize it when Black men disagree with you view of reality?
And yes I understand that there are people of all races who have not succeeded in terms of education, family stability, wealth creation, etc. This is part of why I see the Liberal's focus on racism as counter productive and especially cruel.
The Liberals continue to label minorities as victims and give them excuses for failing. No wonder that many of them have the wrong mind set.
“If you take somebody with the wrong mindset, you can give them everything in the world and they’ll work their way back down to the bottom,” Carson said, the New York Post noted, citing the HUD secretary’s Sirius XM interview with Armstrong Williams." Ben Carson
I imagine what the mind set of my daughters would have been if I had repeatedly told them that it is likely they will fail because the schools, police and much of the population is set up to ensure they do.
I think Laurie is right here in that we can't conflate these two sets of issues. Whether or not minority citizens make optimal life choices is quite another set of issues from whether or not states are attempting to take steps to disenfranchise certain groups of people or whether or not police departments are colorblind in their interactions with the community or whether or not there are certain groups that face discrimination in the workplace.
Oh come now. Liberals live to conflate these issues every day...
They blame poverty, joblessness and high crime rates on racism every day...
While totally ignoring the concept that poverty and crime rates have a lot more to do with broken families, absentee parents, bad choices, etc than race.
I love how the folks like to picket the police departments rather the gang houses... If the communities truly want to change how they are viewed and treated, I think their communities need to focus on fixing their problems.
" If the communities truly want to change how they are viewed and treated, I think their communities need to focus on fixing their problems."
This is a fascinating perspective that gets espoused by many conservatives. When it comes to things like, say, affirmative action conservatives like to throw out Dr. King's judge "not by the color of our skin, but by the content of our character" line. Yet when minorities show where they are being judged by the color of their skin (like police conduct, workplace discrimination, etc.), then it becomes a "blame your own community" approach.
Sean,
Unfortunately enough individuals within these groups have behaved very poorly / irresponsibly and everyone in the communities are paying for it.
Politifact Don Lemon 72 Percent comment
Statistic Brain Gang Facts
As I said, let them go a protest at the head quarters of the gangs. Let them go and protest at the homes of irresponsible single Parents. These are the people who are poisoning the well for the whole community.
Collective punishment isn't exactly an American value.
I dare say you wouldn't want to be discriminated against because of the growing rates of of suicide and drug and alcohol abuse among white, middle-aged men.
As Jerry likes to remind us. Discriminate has many definitions.
verb (used without object), discriminated, discriminating.
1. to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit; show partiality: The new law discriminates against foreigners. He discriminates in favor of his relatives.
2. to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately: to discriminate between things.
verb (used with object), discriminated, discriminating.
3. to make or constitute a distinction in or between; differentiate: a mark that discriminates the original from the copy.
4. to note or distinguish as different: He can discriminate minute variations in tone.
adjective
5. marked by discrimination; making or evidencing nice distinctions:
discriminate people; discriminate judgments.
And I certainly do want my Doctor watching out for signs of depression more closely if I do fit into a high risk category. And even the Police if there is a higher likelihood that I may pose a risk to my family.
The Race Card
Even Jesse Jackson said a few years ago, “There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/960318/archive_010008.htm
Young black males commit crime way out of proportion to their numbers. Taking that into account when you’re out in the street is not irrational, it’s street-smart. It’s not profiling, it’s probability.
The comments there are fascinating...
This is interesting.
Teaching People to Respect You
Is it OK for an employer to fire you/not hire you because they fear the "probability"?
Is it OK for cop to get a little rough with you right away because they fear the "probability"?
Why are you so anxious to justify racism against African-Americans?
Who Gets Food Stamps? White People, Mostly
your topic/discussion would go much better if you dropped the (racist) focus on black people using /abusing the safety net.
btw - 25% of white children live in a single parent home. Why the strong focus on black families, black underachievement, black dependency?
I believe I linked previously about all the rural white people collecting SS disability. Maybe you should comment on their lack of character.
sort of related link which made me think of John:
Republicans Still Believe It's 'Makers' Versus 'Takers'
this sentence jumped out as relevant to the discussion:
"Some whites still convince themselves that whites have an especially virtuous work ethic, or are uniquely deserving of government resources."
Laurie and Sean,
I have no problem acknowledging that there are racists and racism in America. I just don't think it is not the primary reason why unsuccessful people are unsuccessful. And I just find it frustrating when folks like this white Rabbi start throwing rocks from his glass house.
Why are you so resistant to acknowledge that Liberal policies enable and promote dependency, bad choices, ineffectual Parenting situations, challenged children and continued generational poverty...
I am happy to discuss the unsuccessful white people who are on food stamps. I am certain that their impoverished existence has the same primary root causes. Failed families, poor parenting, a lack of focus on education, government dependency, etc. Not racism...
I am happy to push them to change, learn, improve and be responsible Parents. Are you ready to demand that of non-white folks?
Laurie and Sean,
I have no problem acknowledging that there are racists and racism in America. I just don't think it is the primary reason why unsuccessful people are unsuccessful. And I just find it frustrating when folks like this white Rabbi start throwing rocks from his glass house. While Liberals say negative things about Black men who they disagree with.
Why are you so resistant to acknowledge that Liberal policies enable and promote dependency, bad choices, ineffectual Parenting situations, challenged children and continued generational poverty...
I am happy to discuss the unsuccessful white people who are on food stamps. I am certain that their impoverished existence has the same primary root causes. Failed families, poor parenting, a lack of focus on education, government dependency, etc. Not racism...
I am happy to push them to change, learn, improve and be responsible Parents. Are you ready to demand that of non-white folks? Or are you going to continue to make excuses for them?
it seems like in our current economy a work requirement might be reasonable, as so many business are hiring right now. That might work on the margins. Many (most?) recipients of govt safety net programs are already working. What do you suggest?
These folks have some ideas. Though they are a bit vague and how to promote 2 Parent households.
"The Unfinished Work
The ’96 reform was only a first step toward reducing the needless dependency fostered by the structure of our welfare state. But it was a successful step, and the gains it has produced should be consolidated, not undone.
In the coming years, reformers have their work cut out for them. They must begin by resolutely opposing the Obama administration’s efforts to dismantle the work requirements in TANF, which are the heart of the program and the key to the effectiveness of the 1996 reform. The administration’s changes to the program are not only counterproductive, but unlawful. They must not be allowed to stand.
And to build on the successes of welfare reform and regain the initiative, reformers should pursue a three-part agenda. First, workfare must be expanded to other means-tested programs like food stamps and public housing. Second, the overall costs of all our ballooning welfare programs must be controlled through a cap on aggregate spending. Third, serious attention must be paid to the crisis of unwed parenting that drives so much of today’s poverty.
The 1996 welfare reform was enacted even under a Democratic president because the public was clearly behind its basic goals. It was clear that America’s welfare system was terribly dysfunctional and that addressing poverty and dependency would require making welfare beneficiaries work. These same truths are just as evident today; we are just as much in need of a robust reform effort with the strong support of the public. It is time to turn ending “welfare as we know it” from an old slogan into a reality."
Or this one from Wharton.
"Social scientists have not reached a consensus as to why marriage rates have declined among low-income Americans. Conservatives claim that increased aid available for single parents has financially enabled single parenthood. In addition, they argue that lower combined benefits from means-tested welfare programs for married couples disincentivize marriage for recipients. Liberals favor the argument that the shortage of jobs for less educated men has negatively impacted the marriageability of men in this income bracket. Many also believe that the liberalization of abortion and contraceptives has led to rises in premarital sex and the erosion of the “shotgun marriages” – marriages forced or hurried by pregnancy. Although there is no consensus on how much of the decline to attribute to each cause, scientists do agree that this decline in marriage rates has major ramifications for society today. Family instability reduces prospects of socioeconomic mobility for children. "
Or there is my draconian idea that welfare Mom's on the system can have no more than 2 kids. All others must be aborted early or given up for adoption.
Repeat offenders must have their tubes tied.
Put the children first not the Baby Mamas and Papas.
Your Heritage link is nonsense. The Obama "dismantling" of work requirements required states to demonstrate that their changes had actually put *more* people back to work than the existing program or they would have to repay money to the federal government. And two of the five states requesting such waivers were Republican-led states (Utah and Nevada).
Is it OK for an employer to fire you/not hire you because they fear the "probability"?
Is it OK for cop to get a little rough with you right away because they fear the "probability"?
I think I have told you about my incredibly racially integrated daughters who chastise me if I even note that a black woman's afro is HUGE... These girls were raised in very diverse schools and have best friends from every race.
They taught me that the issue is not about race, it is about "ghetto/gang" and "non-ghetto" people. The choices that people make regarding how they dress, act, speak, behave and what they believe. If they value education...
My brilliant daughters with the coaching from my wonderful wife learned early how to stay away from kids who were ghetto/gang. No matter what race they were.
So should bosses and police officers treat "ghetto / gang" people differently. The answer is yes.
These folks have chosen a lifestyle / appearance / attitude that comes with consequences. And anyone dealing with them would be foolish to not acknowledge the risks.
These folks seem to understand... Dress for Success
You're ducking the questions.
"These folks have chosen a lifestyle / appearance / attitude that comes with consequences."
And the girl with the short skirt was asking for it, right?
Assuming you have kids out in that very white community in which I think you live... (ie far west burb)
Do you encourage them to hang out with the ghetto / gang / drunk crowd or the academics / sports crowd?
You can say that how someone dresses, speaks, behaves, etc shouldn't matter in your idealistic world. The reality is that it does and always will because humans are not ideal...
People are very capable of reading others and we as humans need to be self aware enough to decide how we want to be perceived. If you wanta dress and act like a gangsta... You will probably be treated like one and I am fine with that.
As for the girl in that short skirt. No still means no...
But she shouldn't complain about the looks, advances and comments if she looks like a street walker...
As for the firing, that happens because of those beliefs, speech patterns, attitude, etc and not "probability".
As for police officer being a little rough. I assume that happens because of those beliefs, speech patterns, attitude, etc and not "probability". It does not take long to read these...
"As for the firing, that happens because of those beliefs, speech patterns, attitude, etc and not "probability"."
If you look at the "not hiring" side of the equation, multiple studies have shown that just isn't true. Researchers sent out identical resumes with "white names" and "black names" on them -- the same resume was 50% more likely to get a callback if it had a "white name". Researchers sent people to job interviews with the same resume and the same interview training. The job offer rate for blacks with no criminal record was the same as whites with a criminal record.
And looking beyond employment, similar studies have been done that show that doctors are less likely to recommend certain procedures to African-Americans, that they get worse pricing at car dealerships, that they get discriminated against while apartment hunting, that they are less likely to get a response when they send a letter to their elected representatives, that they were less likely to get responses from universities when inquiring about research opportunities, and they got fewer bids on eBay when a black hand was shown in the item picture versus a white hand. And all-white juries are significantly more likely to convict a black defendant than a mixed race jury.
This ain't behavior-based discernment -- it's discrimination based on perceived skin color.
Links to all the mentioned studies are here:
NYT: The Measuring Sticks of Racial Bias
Maybe try googling "woman fired for natural black hair" and look through the over 6 million results that come back, too.
"This ain't behavior-based discernment -- it's discrimination based on perceived skin color."
I guess I disagree. I think most people could not care less what someone's skin color is.
They may be concerned about people who name their children strange names. And how they raised those children... Remember some kids named Dweezil, Moon Unit, Diva and Ahmet?
I know I would think twice before bringing "Dweezil" in for an interview...
This is an interesting example... Was it really her race or hair that caused the termination? Or an inability to just ignore mean stupid people?
"Rhonda Lee had long been told that she needed to make her natural hair “more pleasing to a wider audience,” she told HuffPost Live on Thursday, but she never expected her hair style to actually compromise her job.
Lee, an African American woman who currently works as a meteorologist for WeatherNation TV, recalled how comments she made in response to Internet vitriol targeting her hair ultimately led to her being fired by her former network.
“There really does come a breaking point when either you’re going to accept me as I am and how I do my job, or you’re not,” she explained. “Apparently my station of KTBS chose not, and I was quickly fired for... two different comments that got me in trouble, both times defending being black in general.”
While the network first asked that she let them know before releasing a “controversial statement” in the future, Lee told Nancy Redd, she took issue with that request given the nature of her commentary.
“[It] was kind of confusing to me at the time because I don’t really consider my hair to be controversial — I just consider it to be on my head!” she affirmed.
Her goal in responding to comments was not to stir the pot, she explained, but to celebrate her unique heritage.
“When it comes to looks, I feel like what I said to that viewer was that I’m very proud of who I am,” she said."
And Sean,
Please remember what I said above...
"I have no problem acknowledging that there are racists and racism in America. I just don't think it is the primary reason why unsuccessful people are unsuccessful. And I just find it frustrating when folks like this white Rabbi start throwing rocks from his glass house. While Liberals say negative things about Black men who they disagree with.
Why are you so resistant to acknowledge that Liberal policies enable and promote dependency, bad choices, ineffectual Parenting situations, challenged children and continued generational poverty...
I am happy to discuss the unsuccessful white people who are on food stamps. I am certain that their impoverished existence has the same primary root causes. Failed families, poor parenting, a lack of focus on education, government dependency, etc. Not racism...
I am happy to push them to change, learn, improve and be responsible Parents. Are you ready to demand that of non-white folks? Or are you going to continue to make excuses for them?"
Do you really think that a bunch of Liberals understand the life of a Black man in America better than the Black men noted in the post?
"They may be concerned about people who name their children strange names."
Well, that says it all right there. Naming a child in accordance with your cultural heritage is "strange" if you're black. You don't even recognize your own bias.
"Remember some kids named Dweezil, Moon Unit, Diva and Ahmet?"
You're seriously comparing the experience of the children of a millionaire rock star to those of poor minorities?
"Do you really think that a bunch of Liberals understand the life of a Black man in America better than the Black men noted in the post?"
No, I don't claim to understand the life of a black man. They live a wholly different experience than I do. What I can do is listen. What I can do is not base my worldview on cherry-picked quotes that only reinforce my world view. (Are you willing to accept Jesse Jackson's view on police behavior towards African-Americans, or are you only willing to regurgitate that same 20-year old quote of his?) What I can do is realize that I'll never be questioned because of my name or the texture of my hair. What I can do is realize I won't have to risk being the best in the world at my profession and having someone spray-paint a racial slur on my house.
how do you pick which person speaks for all black men? I think if you were to do a survey the majority would tell you stories of the racism they have experienced.
Do you really think that a conservative guy understands the life of Black men in America better than the Black men?
Perceptions of how blacks are treated in the U.S. vary widely by race
It does make for an interesting discussion. FYI, apparently the favorite names are pretty normal, so what type of person gives their child a "unique" name? A doctor, lawyer or some other successful person... I don't think so.
Favorite Baby Names for African Americans
The upside is that I have friends who are Black and they tell me interesting stories. People do watch them closer due to "the bad eggs" in their population grouping. They politely explain to the officer or other what is happening and the potential situation goes away. Makes sense to me.
I stand with my original point, as long as a significant percentage of people within a population act in a given negative way, all people within that population will need to deal with the negative consequences.
So the big question is how do we improve educational results, reduce gang membership, increase the number of 2 parent households, reduce welfare reliance, etc within that population. As Rolle said:
"No. I honestly - I never had a doubt. And I cannot take the credit. I give that to my parents. You know, we came from the islands of the Bahamas, and I left there when I was very young, ended up moving to New Jersey. And in New Jersey, my parents were prophesied to my brothers and I and speak and hardwire into our minds that just because we come from a small country, just because we have dark skin, just because we don't have a lot of money does not mean that we cannot accomplish our goals in this country that has an abundancy (ph) of resources.
We have to develop our firm foundation of education. We have to believe in ourselves. We have to be good citizens, good leaders, stay true to our Christian principles, and these things could happen for us. So they poured the confidence in me, and I walked out of my house in New Jersey every morning thinking, yeah, why not? Why can't I do both? Why can't I do all things? Once I had that firm belief, it gave me, you know, the initiative to kind of go and pursue those things with all veracity."
Just imagine how much better the lives of all unsuccessful people would be if they adopted and lived by those beliefs...
You know... The beliefs that all us successful Parents teach our children, and reinforce regularly.
Here is a different interpretation of that Hal Urban book I love...
Maybe liberals need to print out some of these... It is one of my favorite sayings...
No wonder many unsuccessful people see nothing but obstacles when they have a huge group of people pointing them out to them every day.
"so what type of person gives their child a "unique" name? A doctor, lawyer or some other successful person... I don't think so."
Let's review what you're saying here -- that it's perfectly OK to discriminate against someone because their parents gave them a name that you find to be "strange".
" They politely explain to the officer or other what is happening and the potential situation goes away. Makes sense to me."
Tell that to Philando Castile. Or Henry Louis Gates. Or any number of other examples. But maybe we should be asking ourselves the question what the impact of facing this additional scrutiny has on regular, law abiding people over time. Even the Mayor of New York had to have "the talk" about interacting with police with his biracial son.
"I stand with my original point, as long as a significant percentage of people within a population act in a given negative way, all people within that population will need to deal with the negative consequences."
Especially when their skin is dark!
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