Or... How to Alienate People? or How to Stay Personally Frustrated?
Now everyone falls into the following destructive Behaviors / Beliefs at times. The big questions are:
- how often, how many, with who and how severely?
- how can we each avoid these traps personally?
- how can we help others who we care about avoid these traps?
- or is just accepting them as they are the only option?
The reality is that most people do not like being around people who spend a lot of time here. Us humans tend to prefer fun people who are praising, upbeat, self confident, helpful, collaborative, trusting and flexible. Thoughts?
The 8th Habit (Steven Covey) Five Cancerous Behaviors
- Criticizing - Nobody can ever do anything right for this person.
- Complaining - Nothing is ever good enough for this person.
- Comparing - This person compares people or possessions with envy, jealousy or put-downs.
- Competing - For sense of worth within relationship, families, work teams and cultures. This person thinks they are better, smarter or richer than everyone else.
- Contending - This person tries to make other people look like losers, so he or she can look like a winner. Everything is a competition.
Two Other C's
- Cynicism - contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives; an inclination to believe that people are motivated purely by self-interest; skepticism
- Control - having a need to dictate other people's behavior; having the need to dictate how something is managed or done; finds it difficult to let others behave / do things as they wish.
27 comments:
I don't generally discuss politics with non political people. I had dinner the other day with the leading death penalty lawyer. Curiously the subject of the death penalty never came up.
--Hiram
How is that related to this post topic? Curious...
The post was about not being around people. If people don't want to be around me, and many don't, it's not because I discuss politics. Most people I know are very involved politically, but also with views similar to mine.
--Hiram
I guess I think you should delve deeper...
Is their desire to avoid you due to your talking politics?
Or is it about how you talk politics? (ie 7 C's)
Personally I have to work very hard to avoid having "meaningful discussions" with many people because most people just want to talk fishing, sports, kids, weather, hobbies, travel, etc.
That is probably part of the reason I am so passionate about my blogging. It let's me discuss all these sensitive topics virtually so I can focus on "being fun" when in social settings.
I still fail to "be fun" on occasion and discuss topics in person with others, however it is much easier for me to keep my mouth shut more often.
As is pretty visible, my biggest problem is when someone on the FAR Right or Far Left makes broad stereotyping generalizations that I do not think match the facts and data.
That is just like putting a red Tee bone in front of a Rottweiler. I just have not found a way to stop myself from asking for some kind of source or rationale, which really makes me unpopular...
Thus the Liberals label me a Conservative and the Conservatives label me a Socialist...
And both label me difficult, disagreeable, etc.
The challenge I have is that if they say these things to me and I just nod my head. I assume they will take it as agreement, which will reinforce their skewed view.
So my goal will be to just stay quiet, change the subject or walk away when folks make such comments... :-)
Is their desire to avoid you due to your talking politics?
Some non political types do try to engage me in politics, but I try to avoid the subject as graciously as I can.
Is their desire to avoid you due to your talking politics?
I just put it down to my obnoxious personality.
Or is it about how you talk politics? (ie 7 C's)
It depends. As an advocate, none of those C's seem relevant. It would be silly, for example, to try to compete with people one is trying to persuade.
--Hiram
I copied these for my convenience...
Criticizing, Complaining, Comparing, Competing, Contending, Cynicism, Control
I don't know. I think many discussions and relationships run astray because of the above. Especially in our current environment when there are incredibly strong feelings on both sides.
Another point is that it really does not matter what we try to do... It is what do we accomplish? And how does the other party perceive you and what you are doing?
Not to say that having good intent is not important, but the challenge is that our words are such a small portion of how we communicate, especially when discussing these types of topics.
Therefore my goal to politely change topics, go silent, etc is likely to be betrayed by my non-verbals that are not aligned with my words...
So I will need to be aware of all three.
Seems to me that the underlying problem here is simply that politics is occupying far too large a portion of our lives, in our control, our personal finance, our hopes and aspirations. There is just FAR too much of this "let George do it" mentality, where we believe that if we just elect the "right guy" every two or four years, that we can flop down on the couch in front of the TV with a bowl of nachos until the NEXT election. And part of that is because our politicians PROMISE us, every two or four years, that we CAN do such things, and their constant failures dredge up the overwhelming cynicism we see everywhere-- half of us don't even vote. And face it, many of us are too busy trying to raise kids, pay for everything including taxes, and maybe have a little fun without these buzz-kill, political thought police intruding on our reverie...
Friendly discussion is one thing, but being hectored and lectured is just bad manners.
Now I realize that we tend to obsess about politics on G2A, however for this post I am more curious about interpersonal interactions in general...
Criticizing, Complaining, Comparing, Competing, Contending, Cynicism, Control
Just imagine the family / friend dysfunction in Christmas Vacation.
What do you do with that ornery old uncle?
That opinionated cousin?
Are you that person? How do you know?
How do you balance being a concerned parent with allowing the adult child to become independent?
How do you keep things fun and enjoyable during reunions, family gatherings, etc?
Being a highly analytical, somewhat emotionless, non-sports oriented, workaholic, I had to finally except that I am not terribly fun to be around.
My simple test was how many people invite me to lunch, activities, get aways, guy's nights out, etc. And the reality is that it rarely happens and for the most part I am fine with that. I have more than enough people who value my skills, tools, knowledge, work ethic, land, candy jar, etc that I am rarely lonely or bored.
And I have no problem reaching out to my life long friends to do things at times.
My point of this are we willing to really look at ourselves and consider changing.
Or do we keep thinking that we are "good" and that any interpersonal issues we encounter are someone else's fault?
Some useful links...
Self Awareness
Not Self Aware
More links
Self Deception
Self Deception 2
Ending Self Deception
So if you are in a difficult relationship with people you care about...
How do you really know if it is you or them creating the strife?
What do you do to improve the situation?
Let's take a different tack. Were we not always told not to discuss politics or religion, because it was bad manners, but also fractious, and basically pointless? I remember being approached one Easter morning (6AM, staring at powdered eggs) by an overly-cheerful young man and asked something like, "Do you love Jesus today?" I think I grumbled; it was not the time and place for that discussion. Sunrise service, maybe-- different time, place, and audience.
Why is it not the same with politics? Why would someone come up to a stranger, say, wearing a MAGA hat, and scream obscenities at them? Who do you think needs to change their behavior in that sort of situation? Or milder variations of the same?
What to do to "improve" the situation? Ignore the idiot to the degree possible. Verbally or physically assaulting them is a powerful temptation, but resist. It's like trying to teach astrophysics to a cat. It frustrates you, and the cat barely notices.
"How do you really know if it is you or them creating the strife?"
Easy. Who broached the contentious subject? Talking about the weather, like today, is fine until I say "Ah, yes, more proof of global warming." If that leads to strife, it's on me. If someone else says it, I can smile and agree and no strife occurs. If someone says to me, out of the blue, "you know, we have GOT to convert to renewable energy to save the planet", my temptation is to participate in the strife already under way ("he started it"), but if possible I walk away. Although I can't help conspicuously raising an eyebrow before I do.
"Ah, yes, more proof of global warming."
Yes, it's playing the global warming card. It's a loaded statement that is can be provocative while maintaining an element of deniability. It presents the one who hears it with a challenge. One can either ignore it, which implies a certain amount of acceptance, or one can react to it taking on the responsibility for the ensuing strife.
On the other side, one shouldn't talk about the renewable energy stuff, without at least a willingness to return to base assumptions. Golobal warming isn't my thing so that doesn't come up with me, but do I do that with respect to stuff I do care about like health care? The base assumption I think I make is that health care must be provided in ways that are affordable. There are, of course, people who disagree with that in various ways. Some equate health care with food and lodging, things which are not regarded as rights in the same way. Others say health care should be rationed in certain ways, that people who can for a larger part of it, or who maintain healthier and/or virtuous lifestyles should get priority. All those positions reflect basic moral values and assumptions which means they are easy to disagree with but hard to argue about.
==Hiram
Ok folks... Now how do you handle these core differences of belief with your family or friends?
Or have these issues caused real problems?
Do you have any one close to you in the real world who believes very differently from you?
Have you or they found a way to love, appreciate and respect each other even with the strong difference in beliefs?
Or has it strained the relationship and caused a gap to develop?
Please do not take this string done the GW rabbit hole.
How about friends and relatives who have different views on Trump/Obama, LGBT acceptability, healthcare policy, illegal immigrant rights, etc?
You know the normal Far Left vs Far Right personal emotional sensitivities.
Now how do you handle these core differences of belief with your family or friends?
I generally agree to differ where we differ. By and large, I respect those kinds of views even if I disagree with them, and I am very aware that I can't prove them wrong.
Or have these issues caused real problems?
Not really, unless I sense that someone is trying to pick a fight. Sometimes, they take involve a teasing behavior, and there the problem isn't with the views themselves, it's with the teasing.
--Hiram
Now is it really "good hearted / laugh together teasing or is actually one of these?
Criticizing, Complaining, Comparing, Competing, Contending, Cynicism, Controlling
Teasing behavior isn't necessarily good hearted, and doesn't involve laughing together. It can be a form of bullying.
--Hiram
I agree if it is tied to these.
Criticizing - Nobody can ever do anything right for this person.
Complaining - Nothing is ever good enough for this person.
Comparing - This person compares people or possessions with envy, jealousy or put-downs.
Competing - For sense of worth within relationship, families, work teams and cultures. This person thinks they are better, smarter or richer than everyone else.
Contending - This person tries to make other people look like losers, so he or she can look like a winner. Everything is a competition.
Cynicism - contemptuously distrustful of human nature and motives; an inclination to believe that people are motivated purely by self-interest; skepticism
Control - having a need to dictate other people's behavior; having the need to dictate how something is managed or done; finds it difficult to let others behave / do things as they wish.
Though I agree that it is hard to tell sometimes where good natured ribbing becomes relationship damaging teasing.
Especially when the Ribber / Teaser is not self aware of why they are doing what they are doing? Or emotionally aware enough to understand how the recipient is receiving it?
Before I became obsessed with personal psychology, interpersonal and communication issues in ~2004, I used a lot of sarcastic jokes and was emotionally ignorant. So it has taken a lot of work to improve in these areas.
Teasing at it's worst focuses on a vulnerability of a person who doesn't have the maturity or other emotional tools to manage it. With girls, it's often a focus on their looks or other issues.
For most mature people the C's are just things you need to learn to handle. We are often in environments where we are criticized, where hear or issue complaints, where we are subject to comparisons, or where we are expected to compete.
As for cynicism, I know I am motivated a lot by self interest and I have found that many other people are as well. With respect to control, yes I have a need to dictate the behavior of others. Unfortunately such efforts in this regard are almost always unsuccessful.
--Hiram
The test I usually apply before engaging a debate is "are you trying to teach astrophysics to a cat?" Alternatively, recognizing "you cannot reason a man out of an opinion he did not first reason his way into." Even more crassly, I say I have a very low tolerance for stupidity, but that tends to get me into arguments that I should not be in. Simply put, you cannot debate religion or politics that IS a religion. Political issues, maybe, but human traits like confirmation bias and the Iron Rule of Knowledge work against you even in "reasonable" surroundings. Best rule is to simply avoid such things in all social settings unless specifically invited into a reasonable discussion. Anything else is just an argument and pretty much pointless.
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