Monday, October 3, 2016

Healthcare Revisited

Okay, I have nothing...  So let's pull these comments to the top...
""Jerry, No one is going to die from ACA, except maybe my Father. He may pass away from continually seeing his huge tax bill. (being self employed, he has to actual write checks)

Unless the idiot GOP folks figure out how to actually cut government when they cut taxes, we will see more debt build up. If they truly want to be fiscally responsible and real financial Conservatives... Let's see it.  " --G2A

"Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. First of all, "if it saves one life" is a major reason for a lot of government meddling that has only this imaginary justification. Worse than that, we were sold the ACA based on the crazy idea that people were dying in the streets because they didn't have health insurance! So when ACA cost millions of people the "plans they liked and wanted to keep," we must conclude, ipso facto, that some considerable number of people died. Now that prices on the exchange are increasing rapidly, there are many more people who cannot afford it, and we assume some of them will die for lack of insurance, as will those who previously would have bought low-cost plans that suited them but are also now priced out of the marketplace by the ACA.

We can bring this back to the original question by noting that Hillary "invented" Obamacare and has only the fantasyland view of it and will continue down that rabbit hole. Trump's "style" is to observe it is utterly broken and to want to fix it. Just like a man, really, who wants to solve the problem, while the woman just wants to talk about it to make herself feel better. Source: "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" . Jerry

"Jerry, The worst thing about ACA is that it makes successful people pay more for taxes and healthcare... The best thing is that it reduces the healthcare insurance costs for unsuccessful people. No deaths required. " G2A

"Of course we could have had lower costs and more coverage if we never had the ACA. And no deaths were required or promised; that is just the way liberal pipe dreams work-- the law of unintended consequences." Jerry

" "Of course we could have had lower costs and more coverage if we never had the ACA." Jerry

Really? Then why did it never happen? Why do we still not have a fully built-out plan from the Republicans to replace it?" Sean


John said...

C'mon Jerry tell us about this wonderful solution that everyone is missing...

"we could have had lower costs and more coverage if we never had the ACA. And no deaths were required or promised;"

jerrye92002 said...

Contrary to Democrat/liberal cant, there are any number of plans out there, not yet put into actual legislation because everybody knows the first requirement is to repeal Obamacare and that isn't going to happen if Democrats and Obama can prevent it, and they can. Legislation can easily be tossed together once the prerequisite appeal becomes feasible. And the replacement isn't even necessary. Our health care system was better BEFORE ACA, so repealing that monstrosity is the simple "solution." MNSURE premiums are going up 50-60%. Does that sound like something "wonderful"?

John said...

Apparently Bill Clinton agrees that improvements are needed.

John said...

At a high level... How do those "any number of plans out there" work miracles?

I mean the math is pretty simple, 30 percent of American Households make less than $33,000 per year and therefore can not afford the typical health insurance costs.

There are apparently 116,000,000 households in the USA with ~2.63 people in them.

That means there are ~91,534,000 people who need help paying for their healthcare. That means that ~213,000,000 of us will need to pay more or let them suffer.

John said...

Just some food for thought apparently my families health insurance runs ~$20,000+ per year. (ie 5 people low deductible plan)

Premium Site

"The increased cost of health insurance is a central fact in any discussion of health policy and health delivery. Annual premiums edged beyond $17,500 for an average family. For those Americans who are fully-covered, these cost realities affect employers, both large and small, plus the "pocket-book impact" on ordinary families."

Anonymous said...

Where would one find information on the total cost per capita of the U.S. Health Care System?


John said...

Here is one source.

"U.S. health care spending grew 5.3 percent in 2014, reaching $3.0 trillion or $9,523 per person. As a share of the nation's Gross Domestic Product, health spending accounted for 17.5 percent."

At 2.65 people per household that would be $25,045 per household. It looks like my $20,000+ for 5 people seems to be a bargain. I assume the higher cost comes from medicare and the care of older people.

John said...

Please remember that average cost means little because the distribution is not normal.

Most of us likely cost <$1,000 per year, but a minority of people may cost $100,000+ per year.

John said...

Thus we come back to the key drivers of American Healthcare Costs that ACA does little about.

I mean many Liberals want to save everyone no matter the cost or how they have chosen to live their lives. Given the technologies we have that can be real expensive.

And Conservatives want to keep everyone alive as long as they can whether they are a vegetable or they want to die.

Sean said...

"Thus we come back to the key drivers of American Healthcare Costs that ACA does little about."

Yet, we've seen the lowest rates of medical inflation in decades since it was passed.

John said...

I think you are giving ACA far to much credit for this.

I think the ever increasing deductibles are a much bigger causal factor. And this is actually driven as companies give employees a way to reduce their monthly premium.

Sean said...

"I think the ever increasing deductibles are a much bigger causal factor."

Plans on the ACA exchanges tend to have high deductibles with HSAs, which is exactly the sort of plan that the GOP was pushing pre-ACA.

John said...

However the increase in these was not caused by ACA. HSAs and high deductible plans apparently go back to Bush.

And don't forgot that ACA damaged Flex Spending Accounts that many of us Parents use.

Sean said...

HSAs were instituted by Bush, yes, but they've become more widely used under the ACA (since the passage of the ACA, the number of them in operation has more than doubled).

John said...

Was that because ACA made Health Insurance so much more expensive? :-)

Anonymous said...

Of course we could have had lower costs and more coverage if we never had the ACA.

In an interesting op ed piece in yesterday's Star Tribune Michele Benson essentially argued for a program that would lower costs by providing less coverage. That does seem to be the policy Republicans want. Bear in mind that health insurance doesn't insure health, it provides financial protection. If you are a poor person, you don't need as much health insurance because you don't have financial assets to protect.


Anonymous said...

The argument poor people can make is, "Look, I shouldn't have to buy insurance because I know that if I have a serious medical condition, I know that the health care industry will provide me with care anyway. They will submit a bill for such services, of course, but as a poor person, I will simply not pay it, and there is nothing anyone can do about it."

Is this an argument to which we should allow to persuade us?