Tuesday, June 20, 2017

Rural / Urban Deep Cultural Divides

Here are some interesting poll results.  Thoughts?
WP New Poll


Laurie said...

Why Obama Voters Defected

John said...

I think the WP Kaiser survey was much more concise and accurate.

"America’s cultural divide runs deep. While rural and urban Americans share some economic challenges, they frequently diverge on questions of culture and values. On few issues are they more at odds than immigration.

The political divide between rural and urban America is more cultural than it is economic, rooted in rural residents’ deep misgivings about the nation’s rapidly changing demographics, their sense that Christianity is under siege and their perception that the federal government caters most to the needs of people in big cities, according to a wide-ranging poll that examines cultural attitudes across the United States."

John said...

I mean let's think:

- Liberals seem to want to encourage illegal immigrants to flood our country. (ie lax borders & path to citizenship)

- Liberals ignored the voices of many rural people and chose to give LGBT people marriage rights. And worse yet they wanted to force people from the Religious Right to support and/or take parts in wedding that was very against their beliefs.

- Liberals backing BLM instead of the police likely does not sit well with rural folk.

Laurie said...

you are so funny the shit you create to ascribe views to others to show how they are stupid / wrong they are

take this for instance "Liberals seem to want to encourage illegal immigrants to flood our country." Obama deported millions over his terms and net illegal immigration has been about zero for many years. This is hardly flooding the country.

Kevin drum had an interesting post today on the effects of illegal immigration
Liberals Haven’t “Lost Their Way” On Immigration

he also had a good post on policing

New Study Suggests Police Stop Minorities at Moderately Higher Rates Than Whites

John said...

I posted your link at the Yanez post.

Now let's see if these open your eyes...
Hill Liberals Angry at Obama
Politcon Liberals Outraged at Obama
NR Deportations under Obama

Just because Obama was a good President who enforced our laws for the most part. Liberals who scream about open borders, taking in many more refugees, and pardoning existing illegals do not get to hide under his skirt...

John said...

Personally I like the original Atlantic piece better...

Especially this part...

"In 2008, the Democratic platform called undocumented immigrants “our neighbors.” But it also warned, “We cannot continue to allow people to enter the United States undetected, undocumented, and unchecked,” adding that “those who enter our country’s borders illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of the law.” By 2016, such language was gone. The party’s platform described America’s immigration system as a problem, but not illegal immigration itself. And it focused almost entirely on the forms of immigration enforcement that Democrats opposed. In its immigration section, the 2008 platform referred three times to people entering the country “illegally.” The immigration section of the 2016 platform didn’t use the word illegal, or any variation of it, at all."

John said...

When is the last time you have heard a Liberal differentiate between illegal immigrants and legal immigrants. When I listen I just here them saying immigrants.

It is very strange to say the least.

Can you personally even differentiate between LEGAL IMMIGRANTS who followed the rules, waited in line and came to the USA legally....

And ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS who budged in front of all those LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, entered our country without background checks and/or permission?

Or are they all "immigrants" who deserve the same opportunities?

John said...

Some more from the Left

HP 16 Reasons to Open Border
Open Borders Info
Atlantic Case for getting Rid of Borders Completely

John said...

Now when you took my quote you left off the final part.

"Liberals seem to want to encourage illegal immigrants to flood our country. (ie lax borders & path to citizenship)"

Now I don't think most Liberals want to eliminate our Southern border and just let anyone cross without any background check, but if they had their way I think far more in need low skilled people would be coming into the country and taking jobs. And I think the rural folks know that.

John said...

This exchange I had with a FB friend seems timely.

Sojourners Have We Forgotten the Meaning of Christian

"Christianity is also about charity and giving, not tax and spend. It interesting how some want to help others as long as others are paying for it. I have my usual questions: as a country we already take in ~1 million legal immigrants and refugees per year, we have many people from South America who have needs and are closer, and we have many people millions of people with poor household incomes in the USA. How many of the worlds 5 billion struggling humans do you want to bring in ? What will they do to earn and living? How will this impact our low income workers who are already struggling? I think people who are concerned should be more charitable and help others while they work to improve their own country." G2A

"As usual, your arguments aren't really about the exercise of faith, but about politics." FB Friend

"My exercising my faith means that I give to charity and help people that I interact with. It is you and the author who want to politicize faith to force people to do what you believe is moral. Instead of asking people to give, pray, volunteer, etc... The author is promoting using our government to tax and fund per his priorities. It reminds me of when the religious right tries to use the government to prevent homosexual activities and abortions." G2A

"Strange, I didn't read that." FB Friend

"I think his final paragraphs make the point well. "

So when we’re confronted with national questions regarding refugees, immigrants, racism, national security, the economy, and social justice issues, we must remind ourselves of the old adage: “What Would Jesus Do?” because we already know what he did, and it’s our responsibility to do the exact same thing."

God help us.

So back to my questions... Any answers?" G2A

"Nope." FB Friend

John said...

So Laurie... Any answers..

So if 1 million per year is not enough LEGAL IMMIGRATION...

How many unfortunates do you want to bring in each year?

Shouldn't we help our neighbors from Central America and Mexico first, and let Europe / Russia help the unfortunates near them?

How do you plan to keep wages increasing in the entry level labor market as you flood it with potential low educated low skill workers, and with automation rapidly wiping out jobs rapidly?

John said...

Now I love you for your big heart and desire to help everyone, however that is easier said than done... Thoughts?

Laurie said...

It seems to me the current level of immigration is about right. seems like we are at full employment and anybody who wants a job and is employable should be able to find one ( I see lots of help wanted signs.) some places probably need more immigrants. I read about a county in Indiana where companies might need to move due to a worker shortage.
Also, did you read K Drum's post that immigrants have a very minor impact on wages?

John said...

As I have said before, then let's have the unsuccessful folk move to where the jobs are. And keep the pressure on employers until they pay more.

John said...

Kevin's sources may be biased.

Simple economics:
More applicants for jobs gives more pricing power to employers.

Illegal immigrants increase the number of potential applicants.

John said...

Interesting thing I heard yesterday. Maine governor letting prisoners out early due to shortage of workers.

Anonymous said...

"As I have said before, then let's have the unsuccessful folk move to where the jobs are."

You are as clueless as Trump. The not-well-off do not have the mobility you seem to think they do. Or are you proposing that the government subsidize the moving of people around the country?


John said...

People can get to the jobs from Central America, but people can not get there from Chicago?

Laurie said...

Liberals and Immigration

sometimes I spout the standard liberal line rather than my more nuanced actual views. When ever I answer a poll type question I always respond with the correct liberal answer. I saw another poll today about who is telling the truth- Trump or Comey- the results were very predictable.

John said...

Now that is a Kevin Drum post I can relate to. :-)

John said...

Here is where I have a slightly different view.

"I’ve long been on record as a moderate liberal on immigration. I think there are benefits to keeping illegal immigration to a modest level,² and details aside, I think the way to do this is a rigorous version of E-Verify along with tough employer sanctions. In my own personal utopia, I’d pair this up with a national ID card. Basically, if undocumented immigrants can’t get jobs, they’ll stop coming. There’s no need for a wall."

I am fine with the National ID, E Verify and even punishing employers. Though I find the punishing part challenging since many of the illegal immigrants are self employed and work for a bunch of individuals. (ie yard maintenance, maids, construction, field work, etc)

My big problem is that we are not fortifying the Southern border to just keep out poor Mexicans who want a better job. We are trying to keep out people who don't care what the American laws are. Those being the smugglers of drugs, sex workers, and other contraband.

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