MinnPost Ten school districts, charters enter into agreements with Minnesota Department of Human Rights over discipline disparities
My initial prejudice is here we go again. Some idiots want to hold poor Black kids to a lower standard of expectation regarding proper behavior at school. However since I do understand that systemic / subconscious racial bias does exist at some level, and some whitees are true racists, I will need to study this topic more.
However I do know what this means for schools and classrooms, it will be even harder to remove disruptive kids because the administrators will fear negative consequences if "their numbers" do come in as expected.
42 comments:
On what little I have picked up about this, it appears that, after years of "white privilege training" and "black kids get a free pass" discipline, the numbers went down markedly, while classrooms became free-fire zones, figuratively speaking. But now, the numbers are back up to where they began. My interpretation is that black kids were creating minor disruptions and being punished for it. When the punishments stopped, the kids moved on to MAJOR disruptions, where now the punishments hold them in check. It is PC run amok, yes? (liked the IT take on this one)
Folks in Rdale district will soon have up close and personal experience.
Rdale schools
Time to move?
Robbinsdale DHS Agreement
We have been having this discussion /fight within the district for the 20+ years I have been here. This is nothing new and only gets worse as the "good families" leave and the "questionable families" fill the voids. The East portion of the district is in Robbinsdale, Brooklyn Center and Brooklyn Park. New Hope, Crystal and Golden Valley make up the Middle. And half of Plymouth makes up the West side.
Same Great District, Same Great Personnel, Same Great Facilities, Same Great Curriculum, But Very Different Results and Student Bodies between East and West.
Our East / West High School divide is not so severe.
What the schools need are more social workers or behavior specialists to help intervene with disruptive students, This will require more money to pay them. It will also lead to a bit of conflict / complaining from gen ed teachers who want to see the disruptive students punished, while the interventions provided by social workers or behavior specialists are more positive, kind and encouraging and viewed as coddling by the teachers who want to see the students punished.
My school is adding a half time social worker next year (shared with another building) and I am hopeful this will help teachers manage the many disruptive students in our building more effectively. As a spec ed teacher I am in favor of positive interventions over punishment.
Restorative Discipline in Schools is the current disciplinary philosophy being adopted by many schools / districts today
Well, one side of the divide is about to get a lot worse, as we start "talk circles" instead of explaining what behaviors will result in parents being called (and inconvenienced), and what behaviors will result in the police being called.
Maybe we should start by telling all the kids what the expectations are, and that your ethnicity doesn't alter those expectations.
Laurie, I always value your insights, but I cannot agree that teachers want unruly students punished, at least not for minor misbehaviors like talking in class or dipping pigtails in the inkwell. And for major misbehaviors like hitting teachers or students, a "restorative discipline" talk circle is way too light and of itself disruptive of the class. I can imagine some kids liking the attention. Still think the old way was best, where you knew and if not were told what the expectations are, and what the consequences are if you went outside them. I agree expulsions and suspensions are poor discipline when what the kid probably needs is MORE schooling and socialization, but at some point the parents or even the police have to be called. And I don't care who you are.
In the challenged schools the student behaviors go way beyond talking unfortunately. A Principal once said that he knew the parent of a child and was very reluctant to call because home situation was that bad... We are not talking Ward and June Cleaver here.
Of course you would say that they are Parents so what they do at home is fine. :-(
It is strange that you expect the School, Social Workers and Police to compensate for BAD Parenting.
And please remember that the schools are being forced to make the numbers look equitable even when the student populations are very different due to their lives at home.
This lady has an excellent message for you
I love this. It sounds like you want to make people into victims.
"The world has gone crazy. Or at least our expectations of the world. We are now officially teaching the idea that others fail us, we don’t fail ourselves. Yes, you read that correctly. In a recent conversation with a grade seven and eight teacher, I learned that the position of our local school board is that students don’t fail, teachers fail.
Yet again, our society is sending the message that it isn’t your fault if you fail, it is the fault of someone else. This conveniently ignores the fact that learning is a complex process. Teaching is only one part of learning. Students bring their innate intelligence, their implicit beliefs about intelligence (see Carol Dweck et. al.), their intrinsic motivation, their cultural beliefs, their family context, their personal effort, persistence, resilience and a whole pile of other traits, behaviours and beliefs to the classroom. "
I would even rephrase that to say "Jerry is sending the message that it isn’t your fault if you fail, it is the fault of someone else. Now that is funny...
Jerry preaching dependency, excuse making and the blaming of others... :-)
That is an amazingly backwards reading of what I said. How you get that out of "set expectations and have consequences for [individuals] not meeting them, regardless of who they are" I do not know. And since you disagree with the opposite of what I said, can I assume agreement with my actual position?
Jerry,
Repeatedly you blame government for the failings of people...
You say that we need to change government to help people become independent...
When in reality the problem is that some percentage of the population are just screw ups and free loaders. Which is normal in large groups of humans. And it is THEIR choices that make them so.
And yet you think to blame everyone and everything except the individuals who are making really BAD choices. Thus...
"Jerry is sending the message that it isn’t your fault if you fail, it is the fault of someone else."
And that if we just change this, that and the other thing, then these people can be saved from themselves.
What you are not seeing is that the "people" "we" have put in charge of solving the problem have made it worse, and that if "we" want them to continue to do what each of us should have been doing-- looking after each other and setting societal expectations-- then "they"-- government-- has to quit being the sugar daddy making everything perfect for everybody, handing out the checks with no compassion on the one side and no expectations on the other.
And I don't think you see welfare like I do (actually, I'm certain of it). Suppose I can't find a job. It may be the result of a bad choice I made, but that shouldn't matter if I am willing to have one. So rather than scramble, or move in with relatives for a while, I discover the government will give me money, housing and food with no strings attached. Am I making a "bad choice" to accept the easy way out of my situation? If I knew beforehand that the easy money wasn't available, would I have made that first bad choice so easily, or would I have then sought someone who could actually help me?
It isn't your fault if someone PAYS you to fail, and to keep failing. Subsidize bad choices and guess what? You get more bad choices. Subsidize efforts to self-sufficiency and offer the incentives and opportunities, and you get individual successes. If you want government to do that, you are going to have to explain HOW.
If you think people can live better on welfare than they can by learning, working, saving and investing, I welcome you to try it.
You can blame the government for offering these people an income that barely keeps them housed and fed... However it is by their own choice that they stay poor and stupid.
The government does offer them in essence a rabbit hutch, food and vet visits... (ie base universal income)
However they choose to stay dependent rabbits... Normal people seize the hand ups that are offered within our society and work for more... The people who are not making good decisions, are not using all of our educational programs we offer are ultimately responsible for their choices and how it impacts their children.
It is kind of funny that I now understand that you also see them as helpless victims... Kind of like the Liberals do.
I see very few people as helpless victims. I see an economy that doesn't work for everyone. Less capable people are also deserving of a living wage. I know this is a mistake going off topic of school discipline and adding a comment to this side topic
"...it is by their own choice that they stay poor and stupid." OK. You are a 17 YO unwed mom and HS dropout. You have no diploma, no child care, no car, no job skills, and mama really cannot house you and feed you and the baby very well. So what are your choices and opportunities?
Laurie, we're off topic, but it happens. What do you think about that new "restorative discipline"? The extra (I hesitate to call them) social workers sounds like a better idea. A lot can be learned about behavior problems by sitting the kid down with a caring adult and asking why. I've met a few, and it seems that simply having somebody hear and understand their problem alleviates the behavior problem. If that someone can actually help, so much the better.
I've often resisted the notion of government-paid "social services" workers in the schools, on the theory that those government services are often ham-handed and ineffective. But I think as I have just described it, it might be OK. Do you recognize it as what your new hire will be doing?
I don't know much about restorative discipline but I support it in theory. Nor do I know much about the job responsibilities of school social workers. I know that they can be proactive in helping students with social emotional learning (SEL)
I will know more about this after we have a school social worker working in my building next year.
Laurie,
We have gone far off topic. This is the norm. No problem.
So why do you think kids fail to successfully complete school?
Why do kids misbehave in school and need to disciplined? (more than a little normal talking, innocent pranks, etc)
All economies require that people be educated and/or skilled?
The people who struggle most in our economy are those who have neither.
To me the kids are the only victims.
The parents, social services, education system, etc are responsible for their welfare and developing them into prepared capable citizens.
Those Adults are FAILING the kids.
Unfortunately as we have discussed recently, both the Liberals and Conservatives would rather protect adults than kids. :-(
Jerry,
I think you slipped back to the days of Ward and June Cleaver again... Our kids today have much bigger problems.
"A lot can be learned about behavior problems by sitting the kid down with a caring adult and asking why. I've met a few, and it seems that simply having somebody hear and understand their problem alleviates the behavior problem."
Now... What authority are you willing to give the social workers to help these children solve their problems?
What authority do they need? How about we start with somebody that cares about these kids, will listen to them and understand the reason they act out in school? Pressure to join a gang? Hooked on drugs? Parents abusive? Didn't understand the rules? No respect for self/authority/others/property? Never taught to read? What?
Seems you want to decide some harsh punishment before you understand what is needed, and why. "Hanging first, trial later."
No. I like to make sure an employee's authority matches their job responsibilities. Currently our public employees have their hands pretty well tied by "parent /student rights" while folks like yourself blame them for failing.
Every counselor I have ever met loves to listen to kids... The challenge is they really can not do anything to help them.
I guess I have a problem with authority. Not the idea, but the word. Right now schools have the authority and responsibility and funding to teach all kids to their full potential. Most of them even take that as a charter or motto. They are not succeeding and, it seems, are unwilling to do anything to change (and restorative discipline doesn't count). Would they do worse if their "authority" were revoked? Until you tell me exactly what "authority" these new counselors need I think it is pointless to talk about what they can or cannot accomplish. And I don't think I have ever heard of a young miscreant being sent to the counselor's office-- it's always the principal or vice principal.
Unfortunately a lot of these young miscreants are already in counseling for EBD, ADD, ADHD, etc. And the schools really have little authority to do more than talk, teach and hope.
The authority is all in the hands of the parents as you prefer.
And of course the issues are much worse when the child is unlucky with a questionable to terrible home life...
Well, ADD and such are different problems. I can understand why we might want to hire "social workers" in the schools to deal with the MANY discipline problems that arise. Again, though, I want to know what "authority" you are going to grant that helps the child in SPITE of his home life, or whether it is your intention that these people will have the authority to have the parents shot for not conforming to your idea of good parenting?
Checkout the Special Ed numbers at North 27%...
See my list...
School social workers have training in how to help students develop these skills:
Social and emotional learning (SEL) is the process through which children and adults acquire and effectively apply the knowledge, attitudes, and skills necessary to understand and manage emotions, set and achieve positive goals, feel and show empathy for others, establish and maintain positive relationships, and make responsible decisions.
I am supposed to teach these skills to some of my sped students but that is not really my strength. I am usually more focused on math and reading.
Core SEL Competencies
Excellent link, however I am unsure how many sessions it would take to develop this capability in a child from a dysfunctional home. Especially if they only get to meet with the counselor sporadically.
After raising 3 daughters, I know developing these excellent skills is hard for many people... Even quite a few adults.
Thankfully the girls aimed most of their impulse / emotion control issues at their Mom and Dad... And not their class mates and teachers. :-)
Of course they knew they were safe in losing it at home. Not so in many households.
ideally classroom teachers would be teaching SEL skills to their students, but for this to happen the principal or district needs to support it and purchase curriculum.
to develop these skills students will need much repetition and practice with the concepts and skills.
and buildings still need school social workers or behavior specialists to process incidents with students and help them make and follow through with a restorative plan.
I am always puzzled when the experts tell us that things like this can be taught. I agree they must be learned, but I don't think it is an academic subject that can be gleaned from a textbook or video. I'm often told that people don't care about your help until they know you care. One teacher cannot care about 20 "unlucky" kids, so I'm liking this idea of bringing in caring specialists to deal with the minor discipline problems before they become ingrained.
SEL skills definitely can be taught with a good teacher and curriculum (as I mentioned it is not my strength)- school social workers that I know do have knowledge and skills for this well
SEL Impact
These are the skills that responsible and capable parents model from the child's birth, therefore they come natural to the Lucky kids.
Unfortunately the Parent(s) of Unlucky kids often model the opposite of these... Therefore the kids literally have to be de-programmed... Those discipline issues and habits are well ingrained before the child gets to school.
Self-awareness
The ability to accurately recognize one’s own emotions, thoughts, and values and how they influence behavior. The ability to accurately assess one’s strengths and limitations, with a well-grounded sense of confidence, optimism, and a “growth mindset.”
Identifying emotions
Accurate self-perception
Recognizing strengths
Self-confidence
Self-efficacy
Self-management
The ability to successfully regulate one’s emotions, thoughts, and behaviors in different situations — effectively managing stress, controlling impulses, and motivating oneself. The ability to set and work toward personal and academic goals.
Impulse control
Stress management
Self-discipline
Self-motivation
Goal-setting
Social awareness
The ability to take the perspective of and empathize with others, including those from diverse backgrounds and cultures. The ability to understand social and ethical norms for behavior and to recognize family, school, and community resources and supports.
Perspective-taking
Empathy
Appreciating diversity
Respect for others
Relationship skills
The ability to establish and maintain healthy and rewarding relationships with diverse individuals and groups. The ability to communicate clearly, listen well, cooperate with others, resist inappropriate social pressure, negotiate conflict constructively, and seek and offer help when needed.
Communication
Social engagement
Relationship-building
Teamwork
Responsible decision-making
The ability to make constructive choices about personal behavior and social interactions based on ethical standards, safety concerns, and social norms. The realistic evaluation of consequences of various actions, and a consideration of the well-being of oneself and others.
Identifying problems
Analyzing situations
Solving problems
Evaluating
Reflecting
Ethical responsibility
Laurie,
I have been through counseling in the past and dealing with this is not just a case of "teaching"... I am not sure how one transforms a youngster with these ingrained habits without a lot of time, sessions and familial support.
One more note... Remember that many of the most challenged kids have high mobility.
Meaning that they don't stay in the same school for more than 6 months at a time.
If the average in MN is 11%.. I can not even imagine how bad it is in urban schools.
This is interesting.
MPS Rates Change
And we wonder why MPS struggles... Where is the parent(s)?
"Chronic absenteeism up
The presentation also included data on chronic absenteeism, which increased in the third quarter this school year.
Nearly 25 percent of MPS students were considered chronically absent, up from 20.9 percent in quarter two and 14.8 percent in quarter one. Among high school students, 37.4 percent were considered chronically absent in the third quarter.
The district defines chronic absence as having less than 90 percent daily attendance. The calculation includes both excused and unexcused absences.
The data show that the chronic-absence rate increased in the second and third quarters last year, too. The rate has increased to a greater extent this year, however.
Moore, the chief of accountability, innovation and research, said he was alarmed when first saw the data. However, he said the third-quarter increase could be because the district is doing a better job retaining high-risk students, who generally have more absences."
I am having a terrible time finding student mobility numbers.
However apparently ~8% of MPS kids are homeless.
That means about 3,600 of the MPS students.
Here is some more demographic data on those homeless kids.
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