FB is hopping lately, we were discussing the Boy / Native American incident and Phillip's perceptions and judgments. And my friend made an interesting comment.
To which I responded.
Then I gave it more thought...
John, again you are lost in the weeds. The MAGA hat has become a big FU to those who embrace diversity and threaten the power of the majority race. It is the old white person’s Little Big Horn. It will last longer, but the outcome will be similar.
To which I responded.
So somehow being:
- against ILLEGAL immigration
- against harboring ILLEGAL workers
- for protecting the jobs and wages of legal low knowledge and low skill workers from unnecessary competition from ILLEGAL workers
has become being against "diversity"?
I will never understand how tribe liberals think... Please remember that I work with dozens of immigrants from all over the world and they are great !!! However they followed the legal process and did not cut in line.
Are you ready to take a shot at answering some of my questions yet regarding what an ideal immigration system looks like to you?
Then I gave it more thought...
I gave your comment more thought. So are agreeing that Tribe Left has become very prejudiced racist and sexist?
I mean it sounds like being a young white man wearing a MAGA hat is now an excuse for treating them poorly?
Is this the equivalent of the young black man in a hoodie being pre-judged?
That is an interesting concept. Thanks for the idea!!!Thoughts? If I choose to where a certain hat it is then acceptable to consider me a alt right racist and attack me as you wish?
73 comments:
You have a President who behaves in a racist manner. You then have a person who wears a hat supporting said President. Put yourselves in a non-white person's shoes for a moment and think about how you would feel.
I think John is deliberately obtuse on this topic. I have no interest in trying to explain why wearing a hat that indicates support for a racist president makes one appear to be racist. I think John lacks empathy and cannot imagine how it would feel to be a minority student attending school with a bunch of MAGA hat wearing white boys.
A bunch of young black violent criminals wear hoodies...
Does that mean that if a Black man chooses to wear a hoodie he should be treated differently because of what he is wearing?
Does him wearing "gangsta dress" mean he supports gangs?
Is it rude and insensitive for young Black men to wear hoodies because it makes people uncomfortable?
Should they dress differently to conform with normal Americans?
Where is your normal...
Everyone should be treated equally and not be pre-judged no matter:
- what they wear
- what they listen to
- what they look like?
I am wearing a hoodie right now. That is a really dumb analogy. I have nothing else to say, except this is a dumb topic and your views on the topic are dumb.
Is it a dark colored hoodie?
If you tie back your hair, put up the hood and walk around at night...
Can we judge you as a likely criminal?
As the great philosopher Racism Watchdog says, "WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF".
Remember
DeNile is not only a river in Egypt.
Apparently then... Please feel free to keep judging and bashing folks who wear red hats with 4 letters on them.
A woman on that FB string asked an interesting question.
What are Liberals supposed to do or say if they see a Black or Hispanic man wearing a MAGA hat?
Are they considered more or less acceptable than a White man wearing a MAGA hat?
I mean ~13% of Blacks support Trump...
Are those folks all racists?
And what about a Hispanic with a MAGA hat?
Apparently ~22% of Hispanic voters support Trump...
Here is the problem:
"You have a President who behaves in a racist manner." No objective proof, merely the supposition that because Trump disagrees with liberal orthodoxy he is beneath contempt, along with [OK, almost half] of all Americans, and that ANY mistreatment of them whatsoever marks the perpetrator as somehow "better" than their targets, even though such behavior is deplorable, despicable, and beneath contempt on any civilized scale.
"No objective proof"
I'll just point you to this:
VOX: Donald Trump's long history of racism
And this piece is a year old now and doesn't even cover additional nonsense that has happened over that time.
Bad link, and it's VOX, so...
Sorry, but I just remember clearly how a black woman chief executive of one of Trump's companies gave a convention speech praising him for a lack of racism, basically. These days, almost all charges of "racism" say far more about the mind of the accuser than of the accused.
Oh, and am I allowed to "put myself in the shoes of a non-white person" if that person is ALSO a Trump supporter? Are black Trump supporters racists?
VOX
I'm sure the links to other sources won't cut it for ya (not sure that anything would).
Thanks for clearing that up. Indeed an impressive list, along with the careful description of each incident to match the preconceived conclusion. Like I said, mind of the accuser.
Let's try a different approach. Are we to assume that everybody in a MAGA hat has seen the VOX article and is acting out in spite of the "obvious proof" that doing so supports racism? Including the black student in the group?
The MAGA hat has transcended its original purpose and intent. I'm not going to say that every person who wears one is a racist. But, I'm not going to fault a minority person who takes that as the message, though. That doesn't excuse or invite any poor behavior by anyone.
Sean,
We agree so rarely that I just thought I would note... I whole heartedly agree...
We "have a President who behaves in a racist manner."
The man will use any hateful stereotypes to scare / manipulate his true believers.
The man has hired almost no minorities to his staff, the interns, etc.
BUT...
Discriminating against people wearing MAGA hats or Hoodies should NOT be acceptable or encouraged by members of Trible Liberal or Tribe Conservative.
Discrimination: "1.the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex."
How about discriminating based on behavior, such as support of racism?
Moose
But by looking at someone...
How do you know if they support racism?
How do you know if the support violent gangs?
If you support a racist, you support racism. This isn’t difficult.
Moose
Do you read their mind somehow?
I don't have to read their mind. They wear it on their head. Seriously. If someone wore a swastika, would you assume they support Nazis?
Moose
Hey, look, here's some not-at-all racist Halloween blackface fun!
Florida Secretary of State resigns after blackface photos emerge
Moose,
Please feel free to rationalize your prejudice and discriminatory behavior as you wish.
Sean,
Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another
Did you read the whole piece? It looks like Florida lost a pretty good employee because he went to a party dressed up as something deemed inappropriate.
"He ran against Democratic Party activist Marian Williams in 2006, beating her by 59 percent. He was subsequently re-elected without opposition. That same year he participated in monitoring the New Orleans mayoral election.
Ertel has a long record of expanding voting rights and registering people to vote. The city of Longwood gave him a Martin Luther King Jr. award for registering voters. In 2012, Ertel spoke out against Scott’s purge of so-called non-citizens from the voter rolls, saying many of those who were purged were actually eligible voters.
Ertel also has won international awards for his plans to restore voter confidence and trust in the elections system."
You don't think that outfit was racist?
"Please feel free to rationalize your prejudice and discriminatory behavior as you wish."
And you will continue to do the very same thing in your own way. It's not as if your blog is changing hearts and minds.
If I see racism, I will call it out. If people's behavior supports racists or racism, it is racist and will be called out.
Moose
Sean,
Rude, insensitive, poor taste, stupid for a guy in public service, etc.
Racist?
Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another
If he had skipped the black make up and had dressed up as one of the many white over weight poor women that were on TV being rescued back then would that have meant he was racist against white people?
I remember wondering to myself back them why many of the poor folks being rescued during that period were obese?
I have a lot of strong feelings about people who seem to be making poor life choices and/or have more kids than they can care for well...
What does that have to do with racism?
This idiot dressed up as something that he thought would be funny. And yet he worked to protect the vote for Minorities... Now would a racist really do that?
"If he had skipped the black make up"
But that's not what he did.
"Now would a racist really do that?"
Certainly not everything this guy has done is racist (and I haven't said that it was). But dressing up in that Halloween costume was racist.
Just curious...
If a minority put's on white face for an event.
Is that also racist?
Remember the definition...
Racist: a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another
Please distinguish between prejudice and discrimination. Discrimination among people is based on behavior, prejudice is based on some superficial marker. We discriminate every day against burglars, rapists and speeders. If we assume all black people are stupid, lazy full-time fornicators, that's prejudice and it is wrong. If we assume everybody in a MAGA hat is a racist, that's extreme prejudice, and it is extremely wrong.
"If a minority put's on white face for an event.
Is that also racist?"
Sure, but I would also argue it's not equivalent. As your own link shows, whiteface developed as a retaliatory reaction to blackface.
"If we assume everybody in a MAGA hat is a racist, that's extreme prejudice, and it is extremely wrong."
You may be right, but it does mean they support a racist, misogynist, xenophobic, pathological liar. One can rightly conclude that decent people don't support such things.
Moose
No, it does NOT! That is a prejudiced view based on the hat. You assume (quite incorrectly) that what is being supported are the evils YOU see in Trump (completely your opinion). Can you conclude, without prejudice, that everyone who supports tax cuts is a racist?
The hat is not a policy statement.
Moose
Of course it is:
- lower taxes
- less govt reg
- smaller more effective govt
- etc
If you think people are wearing it in order to make THAT statement, you're more of a moron than previously suspected.
Moose
You are advocating harassing citizens over the clothes they wear.
I think that your judgment is questionable.
If you think people are wearing the hat to make the statement(s) YOU accuse them of, better check your own bigotry.
Says the people who think that kneeling is disrespectful, making up their own meaning for it, while summarily judging the actors.
I'll take lessons from people who can think beyond the end of their nose, thanks.
Moose
Moose you are officially a “hat bigot”. :-)
Congratulations !!!!
I am thinking about buying and wearing a MAGA hat to see how many other “hat bigots” are out there...
And I don’t even wear hats.
Maybe I will just put it in the dash of my old suburban to see if one of sensitive open minded liberals deface it.
Your principles are so easily manipulated.
Moose
Moose, have you ever been attacked for wearing a hat, regardless of "message"? Would you condemn anybody that did so?
I have style. So, no.
Moose
Ever been attacked for your "style," whatever that is? At what point does behavior cease to be civil, when somebody says something you disagree with, or when you strike them for saying it?
Brandishing a symbol of racism, corruption, etc. is uncivil.
I don’t recall ever saying someone should be struck.
Moose
Moose,,
So you are saying that people should be allowed to harass people who wear something that they personally are sensitive to?
The harasser gets to judge if the clothing stands for.
So if you decide to wear a feather boa, the person who sees you gets to decide what the boa means?
Moose,
So you are saying that people should be allowed to harass and get into the face of people who wear something that they personally are sensitive to?
The harasser gets to judge what the clothing stands for.
So if you decide to wear a feather boa, the person who sees you gets to decide what the feather boa means?
And if they think it means you support something they disagree with... Let the harassment begin...
Is that what you are saying?
I haven’t even suggested that it’s up to each individual to make that determination. Society will end up giving meaning to the symbol.
Moose
Moose
But who's society?
You are choosing to be prejudiced and harass people because you disagree with the way they dress?
Now back to the feather boa... Do you want a potion of our society deciding it is bad for our society to wear feather boas and deciding it is okay to harass people who do?
Are you now supporting the religious right harassing women as they try to practice their legal right to have an abortion?
Do you support having their lives, their families' lives threatened? How about burning down the school they attend? Is that civil behavior against someone whose only "crime" was wearing a very popular article of clothing? Whose minor crime was trying to avoid the radical trouble-maker and provocateur? You know this "innocent victim" has a long history of such, do you not?
Phillips certainly is fighting past demons, and is not quite the perfectly innocent individual he was originally past off as.
"Back in Nebraska, Omaha tribal Chairman Elmer Blackbird did not return calls seeking comment about Phillips' vigil.
Privately, another tribal leader said Phillips is regarded back in Nebraska as a well-intentioned brother struggling to cope with a troubled childhood. The leader said the Omaha Tribe generally avoids the type of activism Phillips prefers.
"He's just trying to find his way," the leader said. "Let him find it.""
That one young white man’s life is inconvenienced because of his own actions pales in comparison to the horrors that have been and continue to be visited on the indigenous, the slave, the immigrant, the minority, the woman, the child, the homosexual, etc. ad nauseum by white men in this country since its first day. It is not wrong to challenge those with power and privilege, especially when those with privilege and power refuse to use them for good.
Moose
Challenging and protesting is fine.
Harassing children and lying is not.
Besides I am indifferent to Phillip,s actions. I am more interested in how supposedly “not prejudiced or racist” liberals pounced on a young man who was on a field trip.
He was on a trip to rally for removal of rights from women while wearing a symbol of everything that is wrong with the current administration.
Moose
If kids go to an LGBT rights protest.
Do you want adults who disagree with that to harass them?
Or are you saying that people should tolerate you and your beliefs, but not the other way around?
Why are you even arguing this?
By the way, please remember that "woman rights vs baby's life" issue is live and hot today. As today's post proves.
If those who invoke a symbol want it to stand for “good”, then their words and actions while invoking the symbol need to be good.
And if a symbol has come to mean bad things, then it behooves those who wish to invoke it to understand its meaning and the repercussions for doing so.
Moose
Oh you will love the MLK comic I just posted :-)
So Christian Right folks can harass Teens with feather boas...
Because they see LGBT activities as being bad for our country.
Got it.
Why must these discussions keep coming down to defending the indefensible, like defending harassing and threatening kids? I don't care who you are, that is just wrong.
Says the guy who is often against legislating the protection of LGBT kids from their less open minded class mates.
This is a complicated topic... To be sure.
Says the guy on the side of those who did the same or worse to David Hogg. Your hypocrisy is staggering.
Moose
I really don't remember us discussing David...
Must be old age...
I wasn’t talking to you, and it’s not difficult to presume on which side of an issue Jerry will fall.
Moose
Yes he is predictably aligned with tribe conservative.
Just as you are pretty well aligned with tribe liberal.
I keep waiting for you two to surprise me...😁
We agreed on something once.
Moose.
I'm waiting for Moose to say that verbally haranguing and physically intimidating school kids just waiting for a bus is wrong, period. Even if they were gay.
I’ve never suggested it was okay to do such a thing.
But I see that my taking a page out of the Republican playbook to say of those dressed like that that they were asking for it has been completely lost on you. I appreciate you making Republican hypocrisy ever clearer for me.
Moose
Nothing seems to be clear to you. Verbally haranguing and physically intimidating school kids just waiting for a bus is wrong. Is that more clear for you?
Of course it is. I never said it wasn’t. You and yours don’t understand a lot of things, but you do seem to understand how to harass a woman who’s come forth about being sexually assaulted. You do know how to harass young men and women who’ve witnessed horror and now want to speak out against the violence they experienced. You do know how to harass people legally seeking asylum. You do know how to harass people serving our country who experience life differently than you do.
It is a VERY long list of people for whom Republicans have immense amounts of disdain. Liberals, on the other hand, only have disdain for those who are doing the harassing.
Moose
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