Saturday, August 24, 2013

Rights: Abortion vs Neglect

Still having MPP problems...  See link for first part of the discussion.

 MPP Women OK with the Choice They Made

"So in your opinion a fetus that is developing normally and rapidly into a smiling and laughing baby is the same as a brain dead adult who is slipping towards atrophy and death. (or foreskin cells) I guess I have to disagree. To me stopping the heart of the first is a reason mourn, whereas stopping the heart of the latter is mercy.

Let's say a mother, I mean "woman", delivers at 25 weeks and there is a high probability that the child will live if given the correct medical treatment.

Do you think the "woman" should be given the right to deny medical care to the preemie?
What if the preemie has birth defects? Same rights?
How does this differ from a 2nd trimester abortion?

As you note, viability is going to earlier and earlier as medicine advances..." G2A

8 comments:

Laurie said...

So what would you advise your daughter if she had sex without the benefit of contraception. Would taking the morning after pill be heartlessly killing an innocent developing human?

Laurie said...

Here is a topic for you: Obama derangement syndrome. Today my mother got another one in a long line of anti Obama emails from conservative friends. This one had a picture of Obama holding the book The Post-American World and was full of anti Muslim nonsense. The funny part is I googled it and learned the photo is from 2008. These emails truly never die.

Snopes: What does Obama read

Anyhow, I am curious why these email chains are such a conservative phenomena. I have seen dozens (and I am not at all in that loop) and have never seen a single one with a liberal slant

They are interesting mix of fear, hatred, and conspiracy. I would not enjoy seeing the world from this perspective. My liberal point of view seems more mentally healthy to me

John said...

Avoiding my questions by asking your own? Alright let's see if we can touch that pacifist bleeding heart of yours...

Close your eyes and think real real hard about the first time you heard your child's heart beat. Do you remember the joy, the fear, the wonder and other warm feelings that went with it? Then remember the first time you held your baby and the overwhelming feelings that went with it. No peeking, just focus on those feelings.

Now think of someone stilling that little heart beat because it is inconvenient or too hard. Imagine a Doctor ripping that little beating heart out of it's nice warm womb. And then someone disposing of it with the garbage.
Mayo 6 Wks Heart Beat

Should we humans ever get to the point where we are "pro-abortion" and do not mourn the crushing of that little heart?

What does it mean if this is just a "choice" with no emotional repercussions?

By the way, morning after pill is fine. Looks like there are couple of prep weeks in the process.(ie no heart)

Now take a shot at answering my questions...

Laurie said...

I didn't answer your question because I have shared my views previously. Also, I didn't really notice a question or get what point you were making. Here are my views again.

I think routine abortions should be limited to the first trimester. I am less prochoice than the average liberal.

When the woman discovers that the fetus has health complications through amniocentesis or other diagnostic procedure I would allow abortions up to the point of viability. The health of the mother would be another consideration for a second trimester abortion.

My point was if one day is OK, what about one week or one month? at 7 weeks the embryo is the size of a pencil eraser.

Mayo clinic Pregnancy week by week

If I was supporting a daughter or was a young woman with an unplanned pregnancy I expect I would have very little problem with feelings of loss or guilt with an early abortion. I would also be very supportive of a decision to go through with the pregnancy. I think putting the child up for adoption would be the hardest choice for me.

John said...

I'll be more specific... If a second trimester abortion is ok due to birth defects. Is it okay for the mother to refuse treatment if they don't find out until the infant is out of the womb? Why/why not?

As for abortion and mourning... I don't expect the Mother to become depressed... However if they start equating stilling the heart to cutting off a wart... I think we humans are heading the wrong direction.

Laurie said...

I think viability has to be the most important part of the consideration. In the case of a preemie with major health problems parents should have some say in consultation with their doctor about live saving procedures.

I agree that a certain amount of mourning the loss of life even early in pregnancy is a good and natural thing. And women should not have multiple abortions and use it a routine form of birth control.

jerrye92002 said...

Perhaps not directly on topic, but since Mr. Obama's name was mentioned, I would point out that on numerous occasions he voted to approve the killing of newborn children as a form of very late-term abortion. That falls way beyond "choice" in my opinion.

One reason I tend to oppose abortion in general, and particularly support the notion of "informed consent" as pro-life legislators push, is because of this fear that some women will make the choice without considering that there is another human being involved.

John said...

Laurie,
Based on previous discussions, I assumed we were aligned and it seems we are.

Actually, I don't know if Parents can sign a Do Not Resuscitate order on their infant/child.

Remember the little boy with cancer, who had the parents that wanted to leave it in God's hands... (ie no radiation/chemo) The courts put a pretty quick stop to that...
Hauser Story

So late term abortions are ok in some cases, yet preventing treatment is not? It is a funny and inconsistent world we live in.