"What about the pragmatic concept that the woman’s path to the top is blocked because many of them are smarter and therefore value a healthy work life balance?
I finished my MBA and made a conscious decision not to pursue the upper management ranks. The personal cost due to excessive travel and long days was not worth the money or position. I think most women agree, so I always find this topic amusing." G2A
"Just as there are men who want to do what it takes to get to the top, there are also women. I find the idea that women don’t want to be paid the same as men for the same work, that they don’t care about their careers as much, or that they are ‘too smart’ to want to succeed is bogus.
People want different things, but men and women want the same things. Women are just routinely not treated equally." Dog Gone
Okay ladies what do you think? Having a wife and 3 daughters, I know I am probably incorrect for some reason... Please enlighten me... Thoughts?
Forbes Women Opting Out?
NY Times Women Like Childcare more then Men?
Columbia Consult
The Wonder of Girls Michael Gurian
13 comments:
Any attempt to know "what women think" is doomed to failure. It's as much a fool's errand as courting the "women's vote" believing that all women think exactly alike. It is difficult enough understanding how ONE woman thinks.
I have been dating/married to the same woman now for ~27 years and apparently I still don't "understand"... Hopefully during the next 27 years I'll get smarter...
Not likely. I think you will find that "Men are like waffles and women are like spaghetti." It's amazing that two such widely different species get along so well together.
Forbes Rules for Women to Climb Ladder
Today Women Redefine Success
The Glass Hammer
PA Why Women Are Not Climbing
It seems to me many women are just as serious and ambitious about their careers as men. I am also guessing that it is still more difficult for them to advance as the assumption may be that they will have family conflicts. I think this is the worst in traditionally male professions.
It also seems that women are getting more college and advanced degrees than men, so past trends may be changing.
For me personally, I worked 6 hours today and have a poor work life balance. And what is sad, is that all this extra work will not lead to promotion or greater pay. And I am still not even caught up in what I need to get done!
"many women are just as serious and ambitious about their careers as men"
Let's say there are 100 men and 100 women. Given your experience, how many of the men will put their career before their family?
Like travel 25 weeks per year, work 50+ hrs/wk, relocate their family every other year, etc. You know the stuff that the typical upper manager has done to get where they are.
And how many of the women do you think will put their career before their family in the same way?
Most of the corporate climbers I know are very self centered and have a very big ego. I mean they are definitely type A work hard folks. Thoughts?
In my past, it seemed the women supervisors and managers had the benefit. The upper managers showed a great deal of interest in their opinions and happiness. Also, though I can think of many experienced men who's positions were eliminated, I can't think of one woman's. These folks were serious about trying to ensure that women succeeded...
So when I hear people saying that women have it hard, I have a hard time believing it. It is kind of like when we were discussing "affirmative action / reverse discrimination". Should we really allow or worse yet encourage reverse discrimination?
"t seems to me many women are just as serious and ambitious about their careers as men."
Laurie is right. But I think we need to understand that this discussion fails so long as we talk about "women" as if they are all the same, because they are not. Some are more suited to upper management than others, by dint of their ability and drive, and they can and often do succeed (these days). Women CAN be CEOs (Carly Fiona of HP comes to mind). They can also be US Senators, requiring a lot LESS ability. But my opinion is that women are [generally] smarter than men, and at some point many of them recognize there is something more important than "killing yourself" with 80-hour weeks and being on the road 26 weeks per year. Many men do, also, which is maybe why CEOs get paid so much. You couldn't pay me enough to take such a job, I know.
As for "women bosses" I think we must acknowledge, again IN GENERAL, that women are "differently abled" than men. They tend to be less aggressive and more cooperative, more perceptive and less judgmental, more intuitive and less abstract reasoning (no offense). None of this disqualifies them as bosses or anything else, but it is different, and to expect equality of outcome in the "race" to be a boss is a failure to grasp the reality of human nature-- BOTH of them.
I agree whole heartedly that every woman is different, just like every man is. I have had two women Supervisors duing my career. One was the WORST supervisor I have had during my 25+ years in the working world.
She was Type A, inflexible, arbitrary, micro managing, illogical, critical, etc. The sad thing is that I think she could have been pretty good, except she was so focused on making her "top down" male mentor/manager happy that her "common sense" was lacking. So it seemed she was happy climbing the ladder on the backs of others.
Whereas I had a woman supervisor at the new company who seemed incredibly promising. (ie friendly, rational, flexible, etc) She seemed to understand that supporting one's employees is a good way to get good results. Unfortunately she left because her husband had a good opportunity out in California... On the upside it was only a year long opportunity, so she may be back...
I guess the point of this post was that I am getting really tired of people whining about uneven results, positions, pay, opportunity, etc without ever raising the point that there may be logical reasons.
Though I wish I made more money and had more influence, the reality is that I was not willing to make the sacrifices required to play in those circles. I was not willing to travel that much, move my family, work that much, play politics constantly, etc, etc, etc.
Now would it make any sense if I cried about not being there after making the choices I did? I don't think so.
A quick story... One of my MBA Professors told a story of a company where the President was going to retire. There were 6 department heads who demanded to be considered for the position. Well apparently they employed a wise search firm who asked these important questions.
"What do you think the President's roles are? And do you really want the position?"
The story goes that after the firm and President explained the role in detail, all but one backed out. It turns out they liked being Technical Department heads and had no interest in being the firms head PR person world wide.
Be careful what you ask for, you might get it...
Here's another story for you: one of my new boss' former employees call to ask him for some career advice. He had been offered a new job. He carefully ticked off the cons and the pros, pairing them, like this: he would have to sell his house and move, but the company was going to give him a classic 8 bedroom mini-mansion to live in. He would have to sell his cars because the company was putting a 24-hour chauffeured limousine at his disposal. He was going to have to sell all of his furniture, except for the antiques, because the company wanted his home fully and tastefully decorated and furnished. He liked his wife's cooking, but the new house would come with a cook who had her own recipes. He had to move to New York, but it was, after all, at triple his current salary. The worst thing, though, was the traveling. He was expected to spend 6 months of every year on the road, though he was allowed to take his wife along (they had no children) and he was supposed to spend every night in one of the Hilton Hotels throughout the world – his choice and all expenses paid – as an inspector! My boss' simple response to this litany of complaints was, "why are you talking to me?"
In the context of this discussion, though, with the average woman have found the choice that easy?
I think the "no children" caveat also made it easier... Whether it was a man or woman.
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