I am finding it interesting in this discussion thread that people who have very strong opinions regarding what tax rate is FAIR... Have very little willingness to express what level of charitable giving should be expected of us American citizens.
MinnPost GOP Values
Brag vs Facts vs Motivate:
Often folks here state their inaccurate belief that Conservatives are selfish, greedy, money oriented, not compassionate, etc. And there are some that are, just like there are Liberals who do not give to charity or volunteer. My point in sharing is not to brag, since that would make no sense since I have not attained my personal goal.
My point in sharing is to help the readers understand how one can be generous and compassionate, while not believing in government mandated wealth transfer. Which seems to be a very foreign concept around here.
Also, I am hoping that some readers would accept my challenge to set a personal charitable giving target and pro-actively work towards attaining it. This can be through giving money or time. And for you single folks out there, I had a very Conservative friend who volunteered through a singles organization.
Remember: the more you give, the more you attain... " G2A
"The more you give, the more you attain:
I don't give with the idea of attaining anything, whether it's tax deductions, bragging rights, or personal goals. By the same token, I cannot abide the currently fashionable term "giving back."
There are things we should do because they are the right things to do." RB
"Win Win
Do you have something against being healthier, happier, more fulfilled, more socially connected, etc? PS Mag Be Happier, Spend on Others
So how much should a person give or volunteer to do the right thing?
Us silly Christians picked ~10% as an ideal amount, what do the non-religious think is the "right" amount?
Can't abide. Isn't "giving back" the liberal mantra in justifying "tax the rich"?
Your comment is interesting with that in mind." G2A
So with this in mind:
- what do you think people should give or do for charity and others to be doing the "right" thing?
- have you set goals for yourself?
- do you monitor and work to improve your performance?
- does giving and helping others make you feel better?
- other?
18 comments:
Have very little willingness to express what level of charitable giving should be expected of us American citizens.
That's because it's an entirely different issue.
--Hiram
Please elaborate.
Charitable giving is a personal matter. But maybe it's worth noting that our tax laws discriminate in favor of high earners where charitable deductions are concerned.
--Hiram
So I think you are saying...
It is okay for society / government to determine how much money shall be taken from Peter by force and given to Paul.
Yet society should have no expectations regarding what individual citizens should give to one another of their own free will?
Am I understanding this correctly?
I guess that this means that in your view it is societally acceptable for the Paul's of the world to be very selfish, self centered, takers, etc. If they choose.
While it is required that the Peter's of the world be giving and socially focused.
That does make for an interesting double standard.
Somehow this clip seems appropriate to this discussion.
Atlas Shrugged Henry and Phillip
It is okay for society / government to determine how much money shall be taken from Peter by force and given to Paul.
Of course it is. I can't believe anyone seriously disputes this. If you disagree, you are certainly free to move to a country where taxes are assessed on a voluntary basis.
--Hiram
I don't think there was a question mark on that sentence.
But excellent avoidance of the issue.
If society has expectations regarding what individual citizens should give to one another, wouldn't this contradict giving of their own free will?
Also, most people have very little excess money from which to give from as nearly all of their income is required to provide essentials for their family.
WHAT IT COSTS TO LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM
Median Four-Person Family Income
I know from personal experience how little $ one can afford to give when one's salary is $55,000. For me it is about 1% which buys teaching materials for my classroom.
Perhaps if I made millions I would give half or more.
How much $ would you give if your salary was $55,000?
But excellent avoidance of the issue.
All societies use force to take money from one person to give it to another. It's the way things work.
--Hiram
Society sets many expectations that are not mandatory.
I assume I would giving more time if my income was less. There is always someone worse off than myself. I think I would strive for 5% in cash and labor. And maybe attain 3 or 4. Remember it is deductible.
Society sets many expectations that are not mandatory.
But it also holds guns to people's heads quite a bit, as you have pointed out.
I just don't think it's a good idea to make taxes voluntary, but if someone wants to propose that, I will give it a hearing.
--Hiram
So belching at the table is looked at funny, but it is ok for folks to be not be charitable.
Here is some interesting info.
Wiki Norms
Factors affecting giving
"four predictors of charity: religion, skepticism about the government in economic life, work, and strong families."
"The second is the belief that the role of government is to provide for needs—that belief in and of itself suppresses charitable giving. Ask somebody, “do you think the government should do more to redistribute income?” People who strongly disagree with that give twelve times more money a year to charity than the people who strongly agree with that. You virtually never see differences that are that big. Even when you correct for income and age and education, there are big differences that persist between [those two] groups."
Generosity Divide
"Red states are more generous than blue states. The eight states where residents gave the highest share of income to charity went for John McCain in 2008. The seven-lowest ranking states supported Barack Obama."
"I just don't think it's a good idea to make taxes voluntary, but if someone wants to propose that, I will give it a hearing." --Hiram
No need. Massachusetts already has such a law. The top tax rate was made voluntary a few years back. NO rich high-profile Democrats paid the top tax rate, including multimillionaire Sen. Kerry, and in fact the first year of the tax I think they took in much less than $1 million, and it has been declining. When taxes are voluntary, liberals admit that they can spend their money more wisely and more charitably than government can. And when taxes go up, charitable giving drops.
Very interesting indeed.
CNN Warren Taxes
Yahoo Mass Tax And only 5%...
NO rich high-profile Democrats paid the top tax rate, including multimillionaire Sen. Kerry, and in fact the first year of the tax I think they took in much less than $1 million, and it has been declining. When taxes are voluntary, liberals admit that they can spend their money more wisely and more charitably than government can. And when taxes go up, charitable giving drops.
Doesn't seem to work then, does it?
==Hiram
Well, maybe the Liberals of Massachusetts are more like normal humans after all.
Well hopefully they give more to charity to make up for their self centered actions.
Oops, I Guess Not
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