From MP Counseling
Jim,
I am assuming you are an Urban Liberal, so your questions, thoughts and feelings were even more interesting to me than Professor Doherty's answers. I realize that things are going to be a bit abnormal and bumpy for the next 4 years, but I can not understand the deep level of fear that legal citizens of the USA are expressing.
I think like the Professor, so his responses made balanced sense to me. And after all the bashing of the Trump supporters, it was nice to hear a voice of reason. Thank you.
Jim,
I am assuming you are an Urban Liberal, so your questions, thoughts and feelings were even more interesting to me than Professor Doherty's answers. I realize that things are going to be a bit abnormal and bumpy for the next 4 years, but I can not understand the deep level of fear that legal citizens of the USA are expressing.
I think like the Professor, so his responses made balanced sense to me. And after all the bashing of the Trump supporters, it was nice to hear a voice of reason. Thank you.
25 comments:
did you read the part about Doherty launched his online think tank Citizen Therapists Against Trumpism, From the web page:
"As psychotherapists practicing in the United States, we are alarmed by the rise of the ideology of Trumpism, which we see as a threat to the well-being of the people we care for and to American democracy itself. We cannot remain silent as we witness the rise of an American form of fascism. We can leverage this time of crisis to deepen our commitment to American democracy."
This does not sound in line with your thinking to me. I believe Doherty is very liberal. He attends my ultra liberal church where he occasionally offers classes for parents. I have not taken one of these classes nor do I know him.
I am tired but it seems to me that the whole interview had quite a bit of talk about fearing for our democracy itself, which makes good sense to me.
From MP
"Treated the present President in the Congress, the south and the tea party? I see more to come in this "election"." Nick
"True. The far right sure did dislike Obama, and worked to stop his proposed tax/ spending increases and illegal immigrant amnesty. And yet I did not get the same sense of fear, dread and/or anxiety from the Conservatives. I don't remember them setting up crying rooms, cancelling classes, etc.
Mostly they just complained about his perceived "executive over reach" and the downsides of ACA. I just don't remember folks using so many nasty labels to describe the people who voted for him either.
It will be interesting to see if the folks on the Left mellow out or if they keep this level of intensity and anxiety going for 4 years. For their sake I hope they are just working through the 5 stages of grief, and their anxiety will decrease sooner than later." G2A
Laurie,
Here is what I agree with Doherty on and the Urban Liberals just don't seem to get...
"BD: One of the things I’ve been doing to cope is I’m reading whatever I can to try and understand Trump supporters, so that I have a more coherent way of understanding it that is not just based on “they’re yahoos or ignoramuses or bigots.” I think that there are some political operatives that you could characterize that way, but not 62 million people. Those are some of the things I’ve done, along with my leadership work, and that’s something people can do. The extent to which people take action, they feel better."
It would be a lot easier for folks on the left to "mellow out" if folks on the right would follow through with their assurances that the "checks and balances" of our system would limit what Trump is able to do. Because right now, the checkers and balancers in Congress don't seem at all interested in doing any checking or balancing.
They're yawning about potential Russian interference in our elections. They don't seem to care about the massive conflicts of interest inherent in how Trump is handling his business holdings. At yesterday's tech summit, his kids were in the room and it was Trump Water on the table. Even Jimmy Carter put his peanut farm into a blind trust while he was President (and the trustee went on to sell it!). They won't even demand that Trump disclose all of his business holdings and debt so at least if he's not going to sell it we can understand where the potential conflicts might be.
Really? PBS GOP Leaders Back Russian Hacking Probe
I don't think anyone knows what to do with Trump's businesses. They are so international, physical and many think it would be excessive to make him sell them.
What "self dealing" are you so concerned about?
One good thing about having a billionaire as one's President... Most bribes are of no consequence. Whereas someone worth $500,000 may find a $100,000 bribe worth the risk.
How exactly do you think is going to sell out the US Citizens for money?
What is he going to do?
Please remember that he is an excessively proud man who wants to go into history as a Great President...
From MP
"Do you truly believe that 62 million Americans "prefers authoritarianism and the ongoing concentration of prerogatives in a few"? Really?
Why again would this large group of people from all walks of want this?" G2A
"Yes: That’s what Trump sold them quite clearly for a year, and that’s what they quite enthusiastically bought. Since November 9 he’s only doubled down, and there’s no evidence of any measurable buyers’ regret.
Why? Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. It’s the original existential condition and the atavistic need. It’s much easier to pull folks down to “Safety and Security” at the bottom of the pyramid than to help them to climb toward “Self-Actualization” at the top. Nothing peculiar about the U.S. population - looking across the globe these days, it seems pretty universal.
Defined most concisely, the project of civilization is to lift a critical mass of humanity up to self-actualization and other-regarding behavior sufficiently to establish self-sustaining societies faster than demagogues, for their own purposes, can mire the population in existential fear for long enough to tear the whole thing apart. Sure looks like the demagogues are heading for victory." Charles
"There are definitely are 2 different philosophies at play here...
On the Left folks believe that self actualization is best attained by all citizens if they have government forcefully take from the successful and distribute the money to those seeking safety and shelter. Irrespective of the recipients efforts.
On the Right folks believe that self actualization is best attained through personal striving, learning and minimizing of the cost of government. And that successful people will help those who really want to grow / learn.
Personally I agree with the latter because self actualization is about much more than money. And unfortunately giving people "money for nothing" is the fastest way to stifle someone's personal growth. Just think of all the poor people who are truly happy and the rich people who are still miserable." G2A
We'll see how serious the GOP investigation is. By keeping it in the current committee structure, they're ensuring that it can be controlled on a partisan basis.
"I don't think anyone knows what to do with Trump's businesses. They are so international, physical and many think it would be excessive to make him sell them."
It's very simple -- you put them in a blind trust with an outsider hired to serve as a caretaker for the business while he is President. It's not that difficult, he's just resisting.
"How exactly do you think is going to sell out the US Citizens for money?"
Just look at his budget-busting tax plan.
What this all comes down to is the utter hypocrisy on display. For years before the election, we were told how the Clinton Foundation was a scandal. House Republicans promised investigations if Clinton was elected. Now, we have a President-elect who won't disclose his holdings or who he owes money to and Republicans couldn't care less.
Partisan... Do you really think the Democrats are fair and impartial given the issue?
Who in the world would you trust to run your multi-BILLION dollar enterprise other than a family member? And would you fire all of the Trump Managers, because they may tell the President what is happening? No... This is just plain old messy...
Please remember that Congress controls the purse strings and taxes, not the President...
It seems a lot of GOP folk are watching the Trump Holdings situation closely. He is not even in office, what would you like them to do? Accuse him of being bribed before his first day?
I still think they want to catch him red handed so they can kick him out and put Pence in... And apparently that would be really bad for die hard Liberals.
Donald Trump says an investigation into Russian hacking is an attack on the legitimacy of his presidency. Is Mr. Trump right? If the Russian government was found to have hacked the election to his advantage, would that make his presidency illegitimate?
--Hiram
It would in the minds of people who did not vote for him...
Of course they are still upset about the electoral college win...
I am guessing it would only be suspect if Russia made up emails or hacked the voting machines. Releasing the truth is not usually considered "manipulating an election", usually it is seen as a good thing. (ie whistle blowing)
And the Democratic folks did not deny the silly and damaging things they chose to write...
Trump is threatening to wreck our democracy. Blame the Republicans who are looking the other way.
on a different note - are you really implying that the Russian hacks and leaks of Clinton campaign and DNC emails to tip the election to Trump is something positive, like equivalent to whistleblowing. this rates about a 9 on the scale of idiotic comments.
on a related note this op-ed really pissed me off:
John Podesta: Something is deeply broken at the FBI
Laurie,
I agree that it is not good that Russia was behind it. However you would have been one of those cheering if someone had hacked the GOP and released some of their stupid emails.
Of course I find it amusing since Hillary and the Democrats always preach their moral and transparent gospel, reading how slimy they are behind closed doors was ironic and informative.
Do you really think this information stopped people from voting for Clinton? I doubt it...
She just didn't bring the passion that Obama did, and the Democrats are obsessed with LGBT Rights, Welfare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Global Warming, College Students, Public Union Employees, Illegal Workers, Bashing Police, etc. They forgot about all the working class folks like my in-laws who pay the cost for that agenda in higher taxes, fewer jobs, etc.
I sure hope the Democrats stop rationalizing and looking for excuses... And start thinking about how to eliminate the burdens that slow job growth in America. I am not sure what it will take to teach Democrats that businesses are not the enemy.
I think by far the biggest reason Hillary lost the election is James Comey. I thought the hacked emails were for the most part very boring but the attention all emails related to Hillary were given by the media definitely had an impact.
as for people not supporting Hillary and the democratic agenda, she did receive nearly 3 million more votes that Trump. Those hard working Trump voters that you admire so much are about to get screwed big time by Trump and the GOP. It will be interesting to see how fast it happens and how soon they notice. It will also be very sad.
Excuses and negativity... Too bad...
Sorry to say, but I don't think many of the true workers in America are nearly as concerned as the Urban Liberals are about: LGBT Rights, Welfare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Global Warming, College Students, Public Union Employees, Illegal Workers, Bashing Police, etc.
Most of them want to work and earn their money, not have it given to them. Don't you remember those Pelosi videos.
Pelosi Conservatives
Pelosi Liberals
Now I am not trying to bash either side, but the belief systems are SO DIFFERENT.
One group wants government to take a lot of money from citizens so it can determine the "correct allocation" for every citizen regardless of their effort, behaviors, etc.
The other group wants government to take less money from the citizens and to just provide general services and welfare to the truly disabled.
That is a pretty big difference.
By the way, how again are the people who want government to take less money from the citizens and to just provide general services and welfare to the truly disabled going to be screwed by the GOP?
Laurie, I feel a need to correct you. Leaving out California, Trump WON the popular vote by over 2 million votes. Thank goodness for the electoral college! Oh, and the "correction" some have proposed to the Electoral College, where the Electors are allocated by Congressional District (plus two for the popular vote winner of the state) are likely to be worse for Democrats. For example, rather than Hillary getting 10 electoral votes in Minnesota, she and Trump would each have gotten 5.
As for the "disaster" that Trump will create (or has apparently already created), I'm just not seeing it. He's not even President yet and already: Canada and Mexico seem ready to renegotiate NAFTA, Assad has asked to work with the US, Carrier agrees to stay in the US, and the stock market continues to reach new highs. Somehow that boogey-man that the liberals keep talking about looks less and less scary and more and more hilarious with each passing day.
Jerry and what if we leave out Texas... I am just saying your argument seems silly... The reality is that the majority of Americans did not want Trump as their President. He has no popular mandate and should remember that.
And worse many of us voted for him only because the alternative seemed even worse to us.
"Leaving out California, Trump WON the popular vote by over 2 million votes."
And leaving out all the backwoods, redneck States, Hillary wins in a landslide. There's no point to your exercise, except to prove that you don't think California belongs in the Union. But I think California is beginning to agree with you.
Joel
I guess it depends on whether or not you think one State should decide the presidency, over the wishes of the population of the other 49.
And on a more practical note, if the popular vote was all that mattered, we would never see a candidate. They would spend all their time in California, New York, Texas and Florida and the rest of us wouldn't count at all. NOT the way to run the /United/ States.
It would in the minds of people who did not vote for him.
Not only those folks. It is, after all, Donald Trump who is raising the issue.
I am guessing it would only be suspect if Russia made up emails or hacked the voting machines. Releasing the truth is not usually considered "manipulating an election", usually it is seen as a good thing. (ie whistle blowing)
Should it be? Aren't whistle blowers often thought to be folks manipulating various outcomes?
--Hiram
From MP Divided. You will have to go there to see Matt's tirade.
""There can be no coexistence when one group fundamentally denies the reality of the other, and actively seeks to subvert it to make their reality the only one accepted."
Read your comments again and ask, how I am acknowledging the "reality of the other"? (ie Conservatives) Possible topics:
- Illegal workers take jobs and depress wages. Regulations and high taxes pressure companies to move elsewhere, because the American consumers want low cost products. Leads to lower wages and fewer jobs.
- Gov't bureaucracy and public employees are expensive and there is low accountability for good performance. ( ie failing war on poverty, huge academic achievement gap, great benefits compared to Private sector, etc) Leads to higher taxes / lower wages and more impoverished people.
- Responsible Parent(s) should only have the children that they are capable of raising well. (ie financially, maturity, nurturing, etc) Children should be raised in a 2 Parent home so they have adequate support and care giving. Failing to promote this leads to higher taxes / lower wages and more impoverished people.
The reality is that Conservative people focus on others, we just want them to be independent fulfilled citizens who are not reliant on their monthly stipend from the tax payers." G2A
"The reality is that Conservative people focus on others, we just want them to be independent fulfilled citizens who are not reliant on their monthly stipend from the tax payers." G2A"
On a related topic, if Hennepin County decides to pay for the SW LRT, and it stays within Hennepin County, they should be able to either refuse ridership to anyone from outside the County (not a good idea), or charge more to those people...should they not? We wouldn't want those from outside Hennepin County to be reliant on the money from Hennepin County taxpayers, so they get to pay extra to use it or not get to use it at all.
And furthermore, as a metro taxpayer, I do not want to pay for a road in Todd County that is used principally by locals. Let them build their own damn roads!
As soon as we realize that everybody does better when everybody does better, we'll all be better off. :-)
Joel
Is the Liberal answer then to just keep spending/taxing?
Remember my favorite question... The government now takes and allocates 37% of our economy... Meaning that we tax payers only get to allocate 63%...
What split do you recommend?
"As soon as we realize that everybody does better when everybody does better, we'll all be better off. :-)" -- Joel
I am OK with that, but shouldn't everybody do better because everybody is actually WORKING together, rather than some grasshoppers living off the ants? And suppose your neighbor (let's say Hennepin County) does something really stupid and loses his shirt playing LRT Lotto. Is it everybody else's job to protect him from his own stupid decisions? If we all do better, etc., then what happens when some of us deliberately and stupidly do worse?
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