This is such a corruption of the system.
https://www.msn.com/.../on-a-mission-from-god.../ar-BB1rmzdV
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38 comments:
Seems like a policy that Jerry would support" :-O
As usual, Jerry was villifying me for not supporting vouchers that take money from the most challenged schools. However he neglected to mention the problem that is noted in this report.
Who Benefits
https://edtrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Who-Really-Benefits-from-School-Voucher-Programs-FINAL.pdf
The Wealthy Benefit
Now maybe Jerry honestly and naively thinks that vouchers are about helping the unlucky kids escape "poor schools". Unfortunately the data shows that he is very wrong.
It is actually a way for the middle class and wealthy to escape the poor kids as usual. No wonder the poor communities get poorer...
And a way for the Religious Right to have the Tax Payers fund their indoctrinating their kids towards hate and against tolerance, love , acceptance, etc.
At least there doesn't seem to be much of a push for vouchers here in MN. Laurie
If MAGA and the Religious Right ever get control of the MN government, I am sure that will change quickly.
I simply don't understand these mental gymnastics that "vouchers take money from public schools" and "leaving the poor kids behind." Most voucher programs direct the [taxpayer] money to poor kids in poor schools, so the rich certainly do not benefit "unfairly," if that is your point. The truly rich go buy a new house to escape those schools, already leaving poor kids behind. You shouldn't and can't stop that, so why not give poor parents the same opportunity?
And the concern that schools that are failing these kids-- terrible child abuse that should not be tolerated-- might lose money is simply indefensible. You are always saying (correctly) that kids who are abused by their parents should be removed from that environment. Why not apply that same logic to the schools that abuse children, and "take" the kids away?
Now I am perfectly willing to make the vouchers "universal" in that they can be taken to the public schools as well as to alternatives. That's particularly important to give the public schools time (and incentive) to compete before alternatives can spring up against them. That would include making the amount of the voucher specific to each kid, depending on the challenge each presents. Furthermore, I would want the public schools to be freed from as much "unnecessary" regulation as possible, just like the alternatives, INCLUDING the requirement that teachers must be unionized and must express support for the LGBT agenda.
There are still many (mostly unions and big-government people) who claim that vouchers and other school choice programs do not necessarily improve results. Other studies seem to show that in many cases academic improvement is substantial. MY argument is that, right now, the public schools are failing and getting worse, with no apparent "plan" for any improvement despite increased spending. If you don't want school choice, then tell me how you can make the SCHOOLS change to improve, and quickly. .
It seems that you did NOT read the article.
Tax Dollars
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/on-a-mission-from-god-inside-the-movement-to-redirect-billions-of-taxpayer-dollars-to-private-religious-schools/ar-BB1rmzdV
Of course I did not read the article. It's still another "lie with statistics" or opinion piece, or an isolated exception intended to prove the rule. I tend to rely on simple logic. For example, failing schools using taxpayer money should be replaced with some alternative that does or might do better. OR, the failing school must be FORCED/INCENTIVIZED to do better, if they can. Pick one. Simply insisting that the alternative is not acceptable and that the unacceptable status quo must continue is not just irrational, but cruel.
Keep your head buried in the sand then...
See the latest NAEP results? Tell me you find that acceptable, then tell me why you wish it to continue to be unacceptable.
I don't want it to continue. We just have different ideas regarding how to fix it.
https://give2attain.blogspot.com/2017/01/how-to-win-war-on-poverty.html
I didn't ask you how to cure poverty. I asked you how to fix the schools. And I don't want to wait 70 years like I did for the government to "fix" poverty. You cannot fix something unless you first admit that the current system is NOT working, and then find an alternative solution. What is it? Vouchers only for the poor kids to attend any school, public, private, religious, home?
Hold Parents and Teachers accountable for doing their job...
OK, given that I hate the word "accountable," tell me HOW? Are you going to take kids away from poor parents just because they are poor? THEN where do they go to school? Why not start with "taking away" kids from schools that are failing them? I would not hold teachers accountable, because good people in bad systems produce bad results. You have to change the system, and I know it can be done. I've tutored some of these kids and they quickly overcome their disadvantages with just that little bit of extra help. I see a couple schools now doing that and the results are remarkable. Why not make it mandatory? Or, if refused, give parents the right to get that "help" at another school?
Start naming those wonder schools. I would love to research their policies and techniques.
Maybe we hold the parent(s) accountable like you would do the school... If the kids miss classes, do not complete their homework or come to school dirty / hungry, etc... We start witholding their gov't benefits and/or child tax credits... :-O
PIck any school that allows "catch-up" help for kids lagging behind, whether "disadvantaged" or not. Even in my local, very successful schools, that little bit of help made a world of difference-- perhaps not overall, but for those few kids who /were/ disadvantaged to begin with. Mostly I tutored kindergarten kids. One of them went from the bottom of math class to the top in 3 months. Another showed up in my 5th grade robotics club, recommended as a top student. Take this same paradigm to a school with 50-80% disadvantaged kids and you have a real, almost instant solution to dismal academic performance. I had one failure, a kid with a tumultuous home life, and /those/ parents need to be at least counseled--"held accountable" in your strange perception-- to help their kid.
Your idea of accountability is to punish the whole family, including the kids. I see that as wrong-headed. Start with the school, and the 80-90% of kids that will benefit from that little extra help can go on and get the education they are promised and need, while we identify those few whose PARENT may need some guidance (or an option for a better school).
What needs to happen, if you are going to insist that the public schools can do the job, is to immediately change the State school aid formula to eliminate every category of preference. No more consideration of poor students, poor neighborhoods, ELL or SE student load, because that is not working. The MORE money directed to a school by these preferences, the LESS the academic achievement! So... cut all aid back to the basic, equal aid (except for compensatory for property-poor districts) and then ask every district, school by school, to demonstrate the need for more by explaining HOW that added money will be used to raise academic results. If it costs more because poor kids need extra tutoring or class time, that's fine. This individualized funding will take extra work, but that should be offset by the huge administrative overhead of the DOE and the local district that we are already paying.
What we should NOT be doing is to continue to pour more money into schools while accepting no accountability for deteriorating results, NOR cutting private school funding as Walz is proposing.
Yes... I know... You want the schools to be parent(s) also. :-O
I am always amazed at how hesistant you are to name the "successful schools". Maybe because they do not exist? Or because they demand a LOT from the parent(s)??? :-)
I am amazed that you refuse to recognize that ANY school can be successful. In the same analysis I did which proves that the MORE money that is spent, the WORSE the academic results became on average, also shows that, for the SAME amount of spending, some schools do TWICE as well as others. THOSE are the successful schools, and all that needs to happen is for those at the bottom to do those same things, whatever they are. I suspect they are the ones that simply treat the kids as individuals, each of which may have some disadvantages that must be individually overcome, rather than as a bunch of unruly widgets that cannot learn.
You really want to talk successful schools? Look at Mississippi, who spends HALF as much. NAEP improvement
Maybe someday they will catch up with MN.
https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?sfj=NP&chort=1&sub=MAT&sj=&st=MN&year=2024R3
Yeah, yeah. We're better than Mississippi, but our academic achievement levels are going DOWN, and were pretty bad to begin with. When will MN schools start getting BETTER? and HOW? Instead of just criticizing every /realistic/ alternative, how about demanding an end to the failures?
TX will be a test for how much money can be taken from public schools to pay private schools.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-fast-tracked-school-vouchers-bill-will-head-to-texas-house-this-week/ar-AA1yps87
Pretty bad to begin with? Are you looking at the same report card?
No idea. What are you looking at? My sources say that about 40% of our 4th grade students cannot read at grade level. In what world is that not "pretty bad"?
And I am frankly appalled by this concern for "taking money from public schools." If I go to a barber and they only cut 60% of my hair, why can I not go to a different barber?
MN is in the top 5 to 10 states. MS in the bottom 5 to 10 states.
Using tax dollars to pay people's private school bills is welfare for the well to do.
You can do better than that. MN schools are among the best of the worst. We need a solution immediately. Texas is aiming most of their dollars at poor families, as it should be, as a start. "Welfare for the well to do"? I hope not, since poor families on welfare are forced into the worst schools already. Education savings accounts hopefully do the opposite. Instead of arguing against what many see as the solution, why not propose a realistic alternative rather than defending the unacceptable status quo?
Holding parents accountable for doing their job seems realistic to me.
You seem to think there is something magical about that word "accountable." What does that realistically look like? If little Johnny, son of single mom, is falling behind in reading and math. Do we fine his mother $100/day until he does better? Toss her in jail and/or make Johnny a ward of the State?
No, it is far easier to address this problem at the school. Give the school the state basic aid, plus compensatory aid, and then fund their requests based on serving the "unprepared," the ESL kids, the SE kids, and individual/small group tutors. They can even add parent counselors where they think that will help, and of course refer the severe cases to CPS. Then, if they don't bring the scores up, the kids get a voucher to go somewhere else. THAT is accountability that works positively, not punatively. But of course that will be fought tooth and nail, as you are doing, because the status quo, miserable as it is, must be maintained.
We will need to disagree as usual. If they pass it in Texas., it will be interesting to see the results.
I am sorry, but that doesn''t really solve the problem, does it? At the bare minimum You should be telling where we disagree. Exactly how do you propose to hold parents accountable? Surely you can't shoot them?
Why do you think the status quo is at all acceptable? And why are you so unwilling to entertain Any thoughtful reform? Why do you think Governor Walz wants to cut back on state aid to private schools?
With hold government funds. Mandate training classes. Etc.
Taking away money from public schools to fund private schools is not answer.
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