And We Are Off...

NYT Impeachment Hearings Open With Revelation on Trump’s Ukraine Pressure

The Hill Trump campaign dismisses Taylor, Kent testimony as 'third-hand opinions'

WE Democrat met with laughter after suggesting Trump testify before impeachment committee

CNN GOP's defense of Trump, Democrats' rebuttal and more from the impeachment inquiry

FOX Impeachment hearing testimony details Trump pursuit of Ukraine ‘investigations,’ as GOP decries ‘hearsay’

I liked this summary from CNN: 6 reasons to impeach Trump and 4 reasons not to impeach Trump. CNN's Marshall Cohen wrote an extremely detailed examination of the arguments, which I've tried to distill as much as possible.

Reasons to impeach Trump

1. Trump solicited election meddling from Ukraine
2. There was a quid pro quo for a White House invite
3. There was a quid pro quo for US military aid
4. Trump's directives to his lawyer Rudy Giuliani undercut US policy
5. Trump improperly removed US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch
6. The Trump administration obstructed the inquiry

Reasons not to impeach Trump

1. The process of the inquiry was fatally flawed
2. Presidents have vast foreign policy powers
3. Limited insight into Trump's state of mind
4. Ukraine got the military assistance after all

Impeach Obama?

J,    Maybe you can enlighten me and save me some research.  With some Conservatives openly dreaming of impeaching Obama, could you tell me what grounds they are imagining using?

I may not always agree with the President, however this seems a bit out there.  Thoughts?

WP Constitutional Grounds for Impeachment
CNN Nearing Grounds for Impeachment
Think Progress 10 Reasons GOP wants to Impeach President

The Will of the People?

Now I am a big supporter of what I call region weighted voting as you know. (ie electoral system)  Where a citizen's vote for President in low population states have more relative power than similar citizens in a high population state.  And yet the high population states still have more overall power because of their large populations.  I think it helps to keep America stable and cohesive.  And it ensures that the parties / presidential candidates need to pay attention to low population states as well as large population states.

 However Hiram reminded me of some stupid hypocritical rhetoric that the GOP have been using during the Impeachment Proceedings.

Stephanie Grisham, the White House press secretary, called the articles a "baseless and partisan attempt to undermine a sitting president" when the articles were unveiled.
“House Democrats have long wanted to overturn the votes of 63 million Americans," Grisham said. "They have determined that they must impeach President Trump because they cannot legitimately defeat him at the ballot box."

They seem to have forgotten that far more American citizens voted AGAINST Trump than voted FOR Trump. Where is there concern for the voices of the 66 million citizens for Clinton?

Now as I noted to Hiram, Trump is our legal President because he won by our chosen weighted system, but to deny that more citizens really disapprove of him than approve is silly.

I keep wondering if Trump and the GOP are working to make sure they lose a couple of more states.  Though Trump likes to say he had some over whelming win, the reality is that he barely got over the finish line. And he sure has not been doing anything to gain supporters among Moderates. The only chance Trump has in 2020 is if the DEMs go too Far Left with their nominee.

2016 Vote Results

RCP Impeach Poll Summary

Thank Hevens: Grid Lock Again

Well I got most of my wishes... I mean both the Fed and State governments are split again. Unfortunately MN went too far DEM for my tastes. 


The questions on my mind:

• Will Trump change his style somewhat in response to this rebuke from the American people?  Or will he blame others for the failures, claim any successes and stay the same annoying person? (likely the latter)
• Will the US Dems waste the next 2 years trying to impeach Trump? (likely)
• Will that crackpot Ellison waste MN dollars suing the Feds, protecting illegal residents and fighting our police officers? (likely)

Thoughts or Questions?

CNN DEMs Ascendant
FOX News DEMs to Flex Muscles
MinnPost DEMs Win Most
MPR News Results

Impeach the President?

Short on time again.  Though you may find this discussion interesting.
MinnPost Impeachment Anyone

"I guess I don't know much about this topic, however these comments seem way too one sided.

 

Now Bush did have a big advantage. Many of the liberties he took were tied to "National Defense" when people feared Al Qaeda. And since the President is the Commander in Chief, he was given some latitude.

 

Whereas Obama seems to using Executive privilege in some places where it may not belong.

•  Letting schools opt out of NCLB
•  Delaying ACA implementation
•  Raising min wage for federal contractors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_ord...

 

It will be interesting to see where this goes. Especially if the GOP takes over Senate control this in January." G2A

 

"As of January, Obama has issued 168 Executive Orders,compared to George Bush with his 291 in 8 years and Ronald Reagan with 391. By the way, last I heard, Al Queda is still a threat but I guess Obama doesn't get the same latitude because ...oh yeah, he's a Dem. Thanks for chiming in however and adding nothing to "your side" other than just blind, partisan speculation. I'm sure there's some poor people you can chastise for their poor life choices coming on another thread real soon. Better warm up your blog..." Jason

 

"Yes they are and I am happy Obama has not undone all of the good work that was done to ensure the war on terrorism stayed off US soil. And if his dictates focused around keeping us safe, he would get that benefit. Unfortunately his dictates seem to be about getting around the rules passed or not passed by the Legislative branch.

 

By the way, have you started Buying American whenever practical? It is good for American workers, Government revenues, Unions, etc." G2A

Thoughts?

Trump will be SO MAD at FOX Now

Fox News Poll: Record support for Trump impeachment

"A new high of 51 percent wants Trump impeached and removed from office, another 4 percent want him impeached but not removed, and 40 percent oppose impeachment altogether. In July, 42 percent favored impeachment and removal, while 5 percent said impeach but don’t remove him, and 45 percent opposed impeachment."

And a FOX update on the Kurdish catastrophe.

"We the People," not "Me the President"

The Hill: Powell: 'The Republican party has got to get a grip on itself'

To all the spineless GOP politicians out there, Colin Powell has some wise words for you.

"We got to remember what 

the Constitution started with: 

"We the People," not 

"Me the President,"

On one side we have Mitt Romney who has great character and morals, along with Collins and Sasse who can admit that it is WRONG for the POTUS to ask foreign governments for dirt on his leading opponent.

I mean please remember again, he did not ask them to work with the FBI / Justice Department.  He asked them to work with his personal lawyer...  Who should have NO ROLE in investigating corruption in another country.

Then we have a sleaze like McConnel who says he will work to stop the Impeachment proceedings even though he has not seen the evidence.

Then we have this idiot Graham who is trying to scare whistle blowers into silence, which certainly would be bad for our country.

Do you really want people to stay silent

when they see your politicians breaking

the law or embezzling funds because they 

may be harmed professionally or physically?

Or

Do you want them safe to come forward 
so the questionable actions can be 
reviewed through the systems that
our country holds dear?

If Obama was POTUS, would your answer change?  Maybe that is a personal problem. :-(

NYT How to Sell Your Soul to Trump.

Impeach Process Comic

Here Comes the Impeachment

WAPO Democrats consider bribery, obstruction for impeachment articles against Trump

I am starting the censure idea seems like a better idea, but neither side seems to like it.
Politco Republicans ignore an impeachment escape hatch

CNBC 'Democrats have gone nuts, they're crazy': Trump lashes out over censure speculation

LA Times Censure Better Option

And of course Hypocrite Trump is back at it again, the man who refused to testify for the Mueller investigation and the Impeachment investigation saying the he wants people who were not involved in this summer's questionable activities with regard to Ukraine to testify.

FOX Trump threatens to have Schiff, Bidens, Pelosi testify in Senate trial as he dares House to impeach

And of course he is trying to convince people that "Ukraine announcing an investigation of the Bidens" was for the good of all Americans...  Really!!!  Who are these suckers who still believe him?  :-)

Politico Trump: I was asking Zelensky to help America, not me

Should Trump be Impeached?

Sean was not very interested in discussing Trump's Good Day, so here is what he would like to discuss.

"Everything I have said in this thread has been *if* what Cohen is saying is true. You yourself said you think Trump knew about the meeting. 

So what's the threshold that has to met for you? Why are you so reluctant to talk about it or offer any sort of opinion about this? You ran multiple threads on the merits of impeaching Obama where you opined freely on the pros/cons. (Oops, your bias is showing again!)" Sean

Now just for the record...

"Please remember that I was actually against the silly Conservatives who thought impeaching Obama made sense. 

"J, Maybe you can enlighten me and save me some research. With some Conservatives openly dreaming of impeaching Obama, could you tell me what grounds they are imagining using? I may not always agree with the President, however this seems a bit out there. Thoughts?" G2A 

"I don't think I ever said I supported impeaching him. Or encouraged anyone to do so. Please note the question mark in the post's title. Hiram and yourself said it would be a big deal if it happened and that the GOP and/or country would be damaged if they took that action. I said that ~50% of the population would support or not be against it. As for grounds, here is what one group thinks... It does seem they would need a better smoking gun to sway that middle 20%." G2A 

I am happy to discuss the pros / cons here however I think you want to just "get out the rope"... Kind of like Jerry wanted to do when Obama was President. In both cases I recommend letting the process work." G2A

Since I was not for impeaching Bush or Obama, I will need to do some research on what offenses are cause for impeachment.
Heritage Stds for Impeachment

The Atlantic Impeachment

VOX Impeach Trump?

The VOX piece was pretty fascinating, and based on it I don't think Trump is going anywhere anytime soon.  At least as long as the GOP holds a majority in the House of Representatives.

Now for the question...  Should he be impeached?  At this time and based on what has been proven, I would say no.

If Michael Cohen can prove that Trump knew about the meeting with the Russians before it occurred.  And Trump has been lying to us citizens for 1+ years about the topic, then I think he should be impeached.  Not necessarily because he knew about the meeting, but because he LIED about this very serious topic.

Also, he should be impeached if it is proven that he turned into such a panzy in front of Putin because he is compromised.